POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
Ask A Question on the daf
Previous daf Zevachim 85
1) LIABILITY FOR OFFERING OUTSIDE THE "MIKDASH"
(a) (R. Yochanan): If a (Kodesh) animal was slaughtered at
night in the Mikdash, one who offers it outside (on a
Bamah) is Chayav (Kares) - slaughter at night is no
'worse' (more Pasul than) Shechutei Chutz (and we know
that one who offers Shechutei Chutz outside is liable for
this *and* for the slaughter)!
2) "EIMURIM" BROUGHT UP BEFORE "ZERIKAH"
(b) Question (R. Chiya bar Avin - Mishnah): If one
slaughtered a (Kodesh) bird inside (the Mikdash) and
offered it outside, he is exempt;
1. If he slaughtered and offered it outside, he is
liable (for both of these).
(c) R. Yochanan is refuted;
2. According to R. Yochanan, slaughter inside should be
no worse than slaughter outside, he should be liable
(for offering outside) also in the first case!
(d) Alternatively, we can answer for R. Yochanan - slaughter
*of a bird* inside is indeed worse than slaughter outside
- Melikah must be done inside, not slaughter, it is as if
it was killed without slaughter.
(a) (Ula): If Eimurim of Kodshim Kalim Alu before Zerikah, Lo
Yerdu, for they became 'food' of the Mizbe'ach.
(b) Support (R. Zeira - Mishnah): If the blood spilled, or
the blood left the Azarah (R. Yehudah says Yered, R.
Shimon says Lo Yered);
1. There, Zerikah cannot be done, yet Lo Yered - here,
Zerikah can be done, all the more so Lo Yered!
(c) Rejection (of support): (Perhaps) the Mishnah discusses
(only) Kodshei Kodoshim.
(d) Question: But later, it mentions Korban Pesach, which is
(e) Answer: It discusses Pesach only with respect to Lo
Lishmah, not to the previous cases.
(f) Support (Mishnah): If any of them (the Pesulim mentioned
above) Alah when alive, Yered.
1. Inference: If any of them Alah after slaughter, Lo
(g) Rejection: No, the inference is, if it came up
slaughtered, in some cases (Kodshim Kalim) Yered, in some
cases (Kodshei Kodoshim) Lo Yered.
2. Suggestion: This applies to Kodshim Kalim and
Kodshei Kodoshim alike.
(h) Question: But it says *any* of them!
(i) Answer: That is for the simple meaning (not the
inference), that if any of them Alah when alive, Yered.
(j) Objection: This is obvious!
(k) Answer: The Chidush is regarding Dukin in the eye,
according to R. Akiva, who says Lo Yered regarding such
Mumim (if already slaughtered).
(l) Question: But the next clause proves that the Mishnah
discusses Kosher Korbanos!
1. (Mishnah): Similarly, if an Olah came up alive,
(m) Answer: Indeed, the Seifa discusses a Kosher Korban (but
the previous clause does not.)
2. If it was slaughtered on the Mizbe'ach, it is flayed
and dissected on the Mizbe'ach.
3. A Pasul Olah is not (Rashi - need not be) dissected!
i. "V'Nitach *Osah*" - a Kosher Olah is dissected,
not a Pasul one.
(n) Question: What is the Chidush of the Seifa?
(o) Answer #1: It teaches that we may flay and dissect on top
of the Mizbe'ach.
(p) Question: According to the opinion that we may not flay
and dissect on top of the Mizbe'ach, how can we answer?
(q) Answer: The case is, it was once fitting to be offered
and became Pasul;
1. The Mishnah is like R. Elazar b'Rebbi Shimon, who
says that once Kosher Zerikah was done, (if it later
became Pasul) we flay it and Kohanim receive the
skin. (And if it was on the Mizbe'ach at the time,
we dissect it there and offer it, for if we take it
down, it will be forbidden to bring it up again.)
(r) Question (Beraisa): We take the innards down and rinse
them (we would not do so if is was Pasul!)
1. Objection: If it was Pasul, would we offer the
innards with the Peresh (intestinal fluids)?
"Hakrivehu Na l'Fechasecha...(if you would give a
sickly animal to your governor for a gift, would he
accept it and favor you on account of it?!)"
(Likewise, one should not offer repulsive Korbanos!)
2. Answer: If it was Pasul, we would not rinse them -
perhaps a Kohen will see them and (unaware that the
Korban was Pasul) offer them;
3) "EIMURIM" BROUGHT UP BEFORE "ZERIKAH" (cont.)
(s) Answer: It is a disgrace to leave the innards covered
with Peresh like a carcass, this overrides the concern
i. Chachamim would not sanction something which
may cause someone to transgress!
(a) Version #1 (R. Chiya bar Aba) Question (R. Yochanan): If
Eimurim of Kodshim Kalim came up before Zerikah, do we
take them down?
4) ARE "BA'ALEI MUMIM" TAKEN DOWN?
1. R. Ami (to R. Yochanan): Why don't you ask whether
or not Me'ilah applies to them?
(b) R. Yochanan (later) concluded Lo Yered, and there is no
2. R. Yochanan: That is clear to me, Me'ilah does not
apply until Zerikah.
(c) Version #2 - Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak - (R. Chiya bar
Aba) Question (R. Yochanan): If Eimurim of Kodshim Kalim
came up before Zerikah, does Me'ilah apply to them?
1. R. Ami (to R. Yochanan): Why don't you ask whether
or not Yered?
(d) R. Yochanan (later) concluded Lo Yered, and there is no
2. R. Yochanan: That is clear to me, Lo Yered, they
became bread of the Mizbe'ach.
(a) (Mishnah): The following Pesulim were not b'Kodesh...
5) THINGS NOT FIT FOR THE "MIZBE'ACH"
(b) (R. Yochanan): R. Akiva is Machshir only a film over the
eye (or other minor Mumim), for this does not Posel
1. He is Machshir only if the Mum arose after it was
(c) Question (R. Yirmeyah): If a bird was Nirva (a man had
relations with it), is it Pasul for a Korban?
2. He admits that a female Olah is taken down, like a
Mum that preceded the Hekdesh.
1. "Min ha'Behemah" excludes Rove'a and Nirva - perhaps
this only applies to an animal, which can Rove'a
(have relations with a woman) *and* be Nirva, but
not to a bird, which can only be Nirva!
(d) Answer (Rabah - Mishnah - R. Akiva): A Ba'al Mum is not
taken down (for this does not Posel birds);
2. Or, since a transgression was done with the bird, it
1. If a Nirva bird was Kosher, R. Akiva would say Lo
Yered also regarding a Nirva (animal)!
(e) Support (Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak - Beraisa): Melikah of
the following has Tum'as Beis ha'Bli'ah - a Nirva,
Muktzeh, Ne'evad, Mechir, Esnan, Tumtum and Androginus.
(f) (Mishnah - R. Chanina the Segan): (My father would push
Ba'alei Mumim off the Mizbe'ach...)
(g) Question: What is the Chidush (the first Tana also says
Yered regarding a Ba'al Mum)!
(h) Answer #1: R. Chanina teaches that cases occurred and
this opinion was followed.
(i) Answer #2: His father would push them off the Mizbe'ach
(a) (Mishnah): Just as if it went up, Lo Yered,...
(b) (Ula): This is only if it did not catch fire - if it did,
(c) Opinion #1 (Rav Mari): Ula refers to our Mishnah (if
Pesulim were taken down, Lo Ya'alu).
(d) Opinion #2 (Rav Chanina of Sura): Ula was explaining the
1. (Mishnah): The following are offered if they are
still attached - bones, sinews, horns and hooves;
(e) Rav Chanina explained that Ula refers to the coming
Mishnah - all the more so, he would say that he also
refers to our Mishnah;
2. If they separate, Lo Ya'alu;
3. (Ula): This is only if they did not catch fire - if
they did, Ya'alu.
(f) Rav Mari explained that Ula refers to our Mishnah, but
not to the coming Mishnah, for we never Maktir bones...
(g) (Mishnah): The following, even if they came up, Yerdu:
1. Meat of Kodshei Kodoshim (except for Olah) and
Kodshim Kalim, the remainder of the Omer or a
Minchah (after Kemitzah), Shtei ha'Lechem, Lechem
ha'Panim, and Ketores;
(h) The following are offered if they are still attached:
1. Wool on the head of a lamb, the beard of a goat,
bones, sinews, horns and hooves;
i. We learn from "V'Hiktir ha'Kohen Es ha'Kol".
2. If they came off, Lo Ya'alu - "V'Asisa Olosecha
ha'Basar veha'Dam" (only meat and blood are offered