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prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem

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Menachos 81


(a) Why did Abaye and the Rabbanan pay Rav Ula bar Aba a visit?

(b) What did they suggest one might do in the case of the Todah that became mixed up with its Temurah, according to Rebbi Yochanan, who declares the Lechem sanctified even if it is outside the Azarah?

(c) Why did they refute this suggestion (based on the four loaves that need to be waved)?

(a) What did Rav Shisha b'rei de'Rav Idi suggest that one might do, according to Chizkiyah, who holds that forty out of eighty loaves are sanctified?

(b) He would then place the two Todos in the Azarah.
Where would he place the eighty loaves (including the eight loaves that he separated as Terumah?

(c) What would he then stipulate?

(d) And what have we now gained with Rav Shisha b'rei de'Rav Idi's explanation?

(a) We refute this suggestion too, on the grounds that it will entail detracting from the allotted time for eating the forty loaves.
What does this mean?

(b) How might we alternatively explain this?

(c) And how will we explain it according to the text 'de'Ka Me'ma'et ba'Achilah de'Arba'ah (instead of de'Arba'im')?

(d) Why might the outcome have been any different if those four loaves had been eaten by the owner as part of the forty loaves?

(a) What does Rebbi Yochanan say about someone who designated a pregnant animal for his Chatas?

(b) Why is this different than the case of V'lad Chatas (which we learned earlier, has the Din of Mosar Todah)?

(c) Based on this statement of Rebbi Yochanan, how does Rav Ashi attempt to solve the problem with the Safek Todah, Safek Temurah?

(d) Why do we not ask 've'Chi Mafrishin Techilah le'Mosros?', like we asked earlier?

(a) What is the basis of Rav Ashi's suggestion? Why does he think that the owner has the option of bringing the V'lad as his Chatas?

(b) How does Rav Kahana refute Rav Ashi's suggestion? What is the real reason for Rebbi Yochanan's ruling?

(c) Finally, Rav Dimi b'rei de'Rav Huna from Damhurya suggests bringing an animal and declaring 'Harei Alai Todah'.
What should he bring together with a second animal?

(d) What does he then stipulate?

(e) On what grounds does Ravina refute this suggestion? Which Pasuk in Koheles negates such a plan?

Answers to questions



(a) Our Mishnah states that if someone declares 'Harei Alai Todah', he must bring both the Todah and the Lechem from Chulin and not from Ma'aser.
Why is that? What does 'Ma'aser' mean?

(b) What does the Tana say in a case where the owner declares 'Todah Alai min ha'Chulin, ve'Lachmah min ha'Ma'aser'?

(c) What is the underlying reason for both previous rulings (regarding the Lechem)?

(d) Then why, in the case of 'Todah min ha'Ma'aser ve'Lachmah min ha'Chulin', does the Tana rule 'Yavi Kemo she'Amar'? Why does he not apply the same principle (Lechem G'lal Todah') that governs the previous rulings?

(a) What does Rav Huna say about someone who declares 'Harei Alai Lachmei Todah'? Why is that?

(b) How will he reconcile his ruling with our Mishnah ...

  1. ... 'Todah min ha'Ma'aser ve'Lachmeh min ha'Chulin, Yavi ke'Mah she'Nadar'? Why should he not bring the Todah from Chulin, too?
  2. ... 'Todah min ha'Chulin ve'Lachmah min ha'Ma'aser, Yavi Hi ve'Lachmah min ha'Chulin' (and not also consider it as if he had volunteered to bring the Lechem for someone else's Todah)?
(c) What does the Beraisa say about someone who declares 'Harei Alai Todah be'Lo Lechem, Zevach be'Lo Nesachim'?
(a) What can we infer from 'Todah be'Lo Lechem ... ' that poses a Kashya on Rav Huna?

(b) How do we answer it?

(c) What will be the Din in a case where someone declares 'Harei Alai Nesachim'?

(d) We ask on the Reisha of the Beraisa 'Harei Neder u'Pischo Imo', which might mean that the Noder added 'be'Lo Lechem' to indicate that he had changed his mind (which is perfectly legitimate 'Toch K'dei Dibur').
What else might it mean?

(a) Chizkiyah answers by establishing the Beraisa like Beis Shamai.
What do Beis Shamai say in the Mishnah in Nazir regarding someone who declares 'Hareini Nazir min ha'Gerogros u'min ha'Deveilah'?

(b) What is their reason?

(c) Rebbi Yochanan establishes the Beraisa even like Beis Hillel (who hold 'T'fos Lashon Acharon').
What must the Noder then have added to his initial undertaking to bring a Minchah without Lechem?

(d) Then why does the Tana rule 'Kofin Oso'? Having admitted that he meant to bring the Minchah at all costs, why did he need to be forced?

(a) What does another Beraisa say about a case where the Noder declared 'Harei Alai Todah be'Lo Lechem ... ', adding that, had he known that such a Neder is invalid, he would not have made the Neder in the first place?

(b) Chizkiyah will establish this Beraisa too, like Beis Shamai.
What will Rebbi Yochanan say? How will he reconcile Beis Hillel with the Beraisa?

(c) Abaye interprets the Tana's quote from the Pasuk in Re'ei "She'mor", Havei Todah; "Ve'shama'ata" Havei Lachmah.
How does Rava interpret it?

(a) We learned in our Mishnah 'Hi ve'Lachmah min ha'Ma'aser, Yavi'.
What problem do we have with that?

(b) What do Rav Nachman and Rav Chisda answer? How do they interpret 'Yavi'?

(a) How does the Tana in our Mishnah qualify the final ruling there 'Hi *ve'Lachmah* min ha'Ma'aser'?

(b) How does Yirmiyah qualify the Tana's qualification? Under which circumstances will the Tana agree that he may bring even the actual wheat?

(c) What did Rebbi Zeira comment on Rebbi Yirmiyah's statement?

(a) Rebbi Zeira presented both his reason and that of Rebbi Yirmiyah. Rebbi Yirmiyah learns Todah from Shelamim, and Shelamim, from Ma'aser.
On what basis does he learn ...
  1. ... Todah from Shelamim?
  2. ... Shelamim from Ma'aser?
(b) What Halachah does he learn ...
  1. ... Shelamim from Ma'aser?
  2. ... Todah from Shelamim? How does that enable him to arrive at his ruling?
(c) Rebbi Zeira learns the identical dual Limud (Todah from Shelamim, Shelamim, from Ma'aser).
In which point does his D'rashah differ from thatof Rebbi Zeira?
Answers to questions

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