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prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem

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Menachos 3


(a) We ask on Rabah from Kodshei Kodshim that one Shechted in the north of the Azarah as Kodshim Kalim. We reject the suggestion that here too, the two are distinguishable, because, had the Korban been Kodshim Kalim, it would have Shechted it in the south, based on a Mishnah in Zevachim. What does the Tana there say about Shechitas Kodshim Kalim?

(b) How do we answer the Kashya on Rabah from the reverse case (i.e. Kodshim Kalim that one Shechted in the south as Kodshei Kodshim)?

(c) How do we query that from the case of Minchah al ha'Machavas?

(d) We dispense with the query, based on the Mishnah in 'ha'Menachos ve'ha'Nesachim'.
What does the Tana there say about someone who brings a Minchah al ha'Machavas in a Marcheshes?

(a) We query this however, based on the Mishnah there, where the Tana rules that once the owner actually designates the Minchah ('Harei Zu Lehavi be'Machavas ... '), the Minchah will be Pasul, should he change to the other K'li.
What is the Kashya?

(b) And we answer by establishing this Mishnah like the Rabbanan.
What does Rebbi Shimon say in the latter case?

(c) How does that affect the case where the Kohen performs the Kemitzah from a Minchah al ha'Machavas as a Minchas Marcheches, because the owner told him that this was what he originally undertook to bring?

(d) In the case where the Kohen sprinkled the Chatas ha'Of below the Chut ha'Sikra as an Olas ha'Of, why did we not also answer that the two are not easily distinguishable, because people will say that it is an Olas ha'Of that was erroneously sprinkled below the Chut ha'Sikra?

(a) We ask why, if someone Shechted an Olah as a Chatas, it is not Kasher according to Rebbi Shimon, seeing as an Olah is a Zachar, and a Chatas, a Nekeivah (rendering them clearly distinguishable).
What would be the problem, if it were?

(b) So how do we answer the Kashya?

(c) We refute this however, on two scores; one of them, that we can still ask from a case where the Shochet specifically Shechted it as a Chatas Yachid (which can only be a Zachar).
What is the other?

(d) And how do we query the suggestion that both a Chatas Nekeivah and an Olas Zachar are covered by the fat-tail, so that they are not easily distinguishable?

(a) So how do we finally answer the Kashya from someone who Shechted an Olah as a Chatas, or vice-versa? Why are the two not considered clearly distinguishable?

(b) On what basis do we then ask that, according to Rebbi Shimon, a Pesach that one Shechted as an Asham ought to be Kasher? What makes them easily distinguishable?

(c) We answer that it is not, because of an Asham Nazir and Asham Metzora. What do we mean by that?

(d) Why are we not satisfied with this answer? What can we still ask from Pesach and Asham?

(a) So how do we finally refute the Kashya from Pesach and Asham?

(b) What makes a goat clearly distinguishing from a sheep?

(c) Then how do we answer the Kashya from ...

  1. ... a goat that was Shechted as an Asham?
  2. ... a calf or a bull that were Shechted as a Pesach, which really are distinguishable?
(d) In that case, how could Rebbi Shimon differentiate between Menachos and Zevachim (seeing as we have a case where even Zevachim are easily distinguishable, and where Shechitah she'Lo li'Shemah is Kasher?
Answers to questions



(a) Rava resolves the contradiction in Rebbi Shimon's two statements by differentiating between bringing (e.g. performing the Kemitzah) one Minchah as another Minchah, and bringing a Minchah as a different Korban.
What does he mean?

(b) How does he learn this from the Pasuk in Tzav "ve'Zos Toras ha'Minchah"?

(c) How does he then explain Rebbi Shimon's words ...

  1. ... 'Mipnei she'Ma'asav Mochichin Alehah'?
  2. ... 'Aval bi'Zevachim Eino Kein, Shechitah Achas le'Kulan ... '?
(d) How does Rebbi Shimon derive that the owner has not fulfilled his obligation from "Zos Toras ha'Minchah"?
(a) What do we ask on Rava from the Pasuk in Tzav "ve'Zos Toras ha'Chatas"?

(b) Why is that a problem?

(c) And what do we answer?

(a) What distinction does Rava draw, according to the Rabbanan, between whether one Shechts a Chatas Cheilev as a Chatas Dam or as a Chatas Avodas-Kochavim on the one hand, or whether one Shechts a Chatas Dam as a Chatas Nazir or Metzora, on the other?

(b) And what does he mean when he presents the reason for this as 'Hani (the latter two) Olos Bahadayhu Ninhu'?

(c) How might we alternatively explain this as if it had written 'Hani Olos Ninhu'?

(d) On what grounds do we reject the interpretation that they require Nesachim like Olos?

9) Rav Acha b'rei de'Rava disagrees.
How does he explain the Pasuk in Vayikra "Ve'shachat Osah le'Chatas"?


(a) We already cited Rav Ashi's solution to the discrepancy in Rebbi Shimon ('Ka'an Kometz Machavas le'Shem Marcheshes, Ka'an be'Kometz Minchas Machavas le'Shem Minchas Marcheshes').
Why is it not Pasul in the Reisha?

(b) Then how does he explain Rebbi Shimon's words ...

  1. ... 'Mipnei she'Ma'asehah Mochichin' (which appears to be the reason why she'Lo li'Shemah is Kasher?
  2. ... 'Aval bi'Zevachim Eino Chein; Shechitah Achas le'Chulan ... '?
(c) How do we counter Rav Acha b'rei de'Rava's Kashya from 'Chareivah le'Shem Belulah' (where there is no K'li involved), so why does Rebbi Shimon not invalidate it?

(d) How do we then differentiate between this latter case and one of Olah le'Shem Shelamim, which Rebbi Shimon invalidates? Perhaps there too, he means that he is bringing the Olah in the name of peace?

(a) Why did ...
  1. ... Rava and Rav Ashi decline to learn like Rabah?
  2. ... Rabah and Rav Ashi decline to learn like Rava?
  3. ... Rabah and Rava decline to learn like Rav Ashi?
(b) Rav Hoshaya asked (some say that he asked Rebbi Asi) what Rebbi Shimon will hold with regard to someone who brings a Minchah as a Zevach.
What is the basis of his She'eilah?

(c) Why did he not resolve the She'eilah ...

  1. ... like Rabah?
  2. ... like Rava?
  3. ... like Rav Ashi?
Answers to questions

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