ANSWERS TO REVIEW QUESTIONS
prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem
Previous daf Menachos 63
(a) Our Mishnah rules that someone who declares that he will bring a Minchah
al ha'Machavas - is not permitted to then bring a Minchas Marcheshes (in
fulfillment of his Neder), or vice-versa.
(b) According to Rebbi Chanina ben Gamliel, the former is baked in a flat
pan, the latter, in a deep one ... , as we have already learned. According
to him ...
1. ... a Minchas Marcheshes is so-called - because, due to its soft texture,
it looks as if it is creeping (which is similar to the Targum's translation
(c) According to Rebbi Hagelili - a Minchas Marcheshes is covered during
baking, whereas a Minchah al ha'Machavas is not.
2. ... a Minchah al ha'Machavas turns out crisp - because (unlike a Minchas
Marcheshes, where the oil accumulates at the bottom of the pot, w here it
saturates the Minchah) it spreads to the four corners of the pan and is
absorbed by the Minchah only in small quantities.
(a) To explain Rebbi Yossi Hagelili, we suggest that the root of Marcheshes
is 'Rechusha de'Libi', and that of Machavas is 'Machbu'i ha'Peh'.
1. 'Rechusha de'Libi' means - the (sinful) thoughts of the heart (like in
the Pasuk in Tehilim "Rachash Libi Davar Tov").
(b) We refute this suggestion however, on the basis of a Pasuk on the one
hand, and a common expression on the other.
2. 'Machbu'i ha'Peh' means - what the mouth reveals (from the Lashon 'Niv',
which refers to the upper lip).
1. The Pasuk "Lamah Nachbeisa Li'vro'ach" (said by Lavan to Ya'akov) means -
'Why did you run away secretly'? ...
(c) In fact, Rebbi Yossi Hagelili derives his distinction between Marcheshes
and Machavas - from tradition (as passed down to him by his Rebbes).
2. ... and the expression 'Havi Merachshan Sif'vaseih' - 'his lips were
(d) Whereas Rebbi Chanina ben Gamliel learns from the Pasuk ...
1. ... "ve'Chol Na'aseh *ba*'Marcheshes" - that 'Marcheshes' is a deep K'li.
2. ... "*ve'al* Machavas" - that 'Machavas' is a shallow one that has no
(a) If someone declares 'Harei Alai Marcheshes', Beis Shamai in a Beraisa
rule that the Neder is placed on hold until Eliyahu comes - because they are
uncertain whether 'Marcheshes' is the name of the K'li or the name of the
Minchah (based on the texture of the finished Minchah).
(b) The ramifications of this She'eilah are - whether the Noder is - whether
the Noder is Chayav to bring a Minchas Marcheshes, or whether he is Chayav
to donate a Marcheshes to the Bedek ha'Bayis.
(c) Had he meant to obligate himself to bring a Minchas Marcheshes, he ought
to have said - 'Harei Alai Minchah al ha'Marcheshes' or ' ... Minchas
(a) Beis Hillel rule - that the Noder is obligated to donate a Marcheshes to
Bedek ha'Bayis, since there definitely was such a K'li in the
(b) The Marcheshes was - deep, but with a partition half way down. That
partition contained small, round cavities (presumably ten, to form the ten
loaves required for every Minchah), causing the dough to form into balls
shaped like acorns and chestnuts (known as B'rasi apples and Greek 'Blavta'
(c) And they learn from the 'Beis' in "be'Marcheshes" and the word "al in
"al ha'Machavas" - that these were Keilim (and not names of the type of
(a) Our Mishnah teaches that someone who undertakes to bring a 'Minchas
Ma'afeh Tanur' must bring a Minchah that is baked in a Tanur - an oven
shaped like a rhombus, with space for one pot, and not in a Kupach, with
space for one pot, too, but shaped like a cube.
(b) Neither may he bring a Minchas 'Ma'afeh Ra'afim' or 'Ma'afeh Yoros
Arabiyim'. A Minchas Ma'afeh ...
1. ... Ra'afim' is - baked on tiles.
(c) The Tana Kama forbids bringing a Minchas Ma'afeh Tanur, half Chalos and
half wafers. We might have thought that one may - because the Torah mentions
them both (but which the Tana Kama interprets to mean that he may choose
between one and the other).
2. ... Yoros Arabiyim' is - baked in Arabian pre-heated pots.
(d) Rebbi Shimon - permits a Minchas Ma'afeh Tanur which is half Chalos and
half wafers, because it is one and the same Korban.
(a) Rebbi Yehudah disagrees with the Tana Kama - in that he permits baking a
Ma'afeh Tanur in a Kupach (which, technically speaking, is also a Tanur).
(b) In a Beraisa, he learns from the fact that the Torah repeats the word
"Tanur" (once in Vayikra and once in Tzav) - that a Minchas Ma'afeh Tanur
incorporates a Ma'aseh Kupach.
(a) According to Rebbi Shimon, the extra "Tanur" comes - to teach us that,
not only must the Ma'afeh Tanur be baked in an oven, but that it must also
be sanctified (Kedushas ha'Guf) in an oven.
(b) And, in a Mishnah in 'Sh'tei ha'Lechem', he states - that the Sh'tei
ha'Lechem and the Lechem ha'Panim are Kasher if they are baked in the Beis
Pagi (an area outside the walls of the Azarah) as well as in the Azarah.
(c) The problem this creates with his previous ruling is - that if the Tanur
sanctifies a Minchah (Kedushas ha'Guf), then how can the Sh'tei ha'Lechem
and the Lechem ha'Panim be baked in the Beis Pagi"? Seeing as the oven is
outside the Azarah, this immediately renders them Pasul be'Yotzei?
(d) To reconcile Rebbi Shimon's first statement, with his second, Rava
amends Rebbi Shimon's first statement to read - 'she'Yehei Hekdeishan Leshem
Tanur' (meaning that when one designates them as Kedushas Damim, one does so
with the intention of baking them in an oven).
(a) The Beraisa interprets the Pasuk "*ve'Chi Sakriv* Korban Minchah Ma'afeh
Sanur" to mean - that bringing a Minchah is Reshus, not a Chiyuv.
(b) Rebbi Yehudah there learns from the word "*Korban* Minchah" - that he is
not permitted to bring half the Minchah Chalos, and the other half, wafers
(because the Torah prescribes one option for bringing the Minchah, and not
two (though his reason will become more clear in the Beraisa quoted in the
(c) Rebbi Shimon objects to that - on the grounds that the Torah uses the
word "Korban" only once, adding "Chalos Matzos" and "Rekikei Matzos",
implying that he can bring either one of them, or both.
(d) For him to agree with Rebbi Yehudah - the Torah would have had to write
"Korban" twice, since that would have implied that the Chalos and the
Rekikin are two independent Korbanos, which may not be mixed.
(a) Supposing that, according to Rebbi Shimon, one did bring half Chalos and
half wafers, before performing the Kemitzah - the Kohen would have to mix
them together ...
(b) ... in order to take the Kemitzah from both kinds together.
(c) If, in spite of that, he took the Kemitzah from only one of them - he
would be Yotzei.
(d) Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi Yehudah learn from the Pasuk "*ve'Chol* Minchah
Asher Te'afeh ba'Tanur, *ve'Chol* Na'aseh ba'Marcheshes ve'al Machavas ... ,
*ve'Chol* Minchah Belulah va'Shemen va'Chareivah" - that just as the two
latter "ve'Chol" refer to two Menachos that may not be combined, so too, the
former one (incorporting Chalos and Rekikin), a support for his father Rebbi
(a) Rebbi Yehudah learns from the repetition of "ba'Shemen" (in the Pasuk
"So'les Chalos Belulos ba'Shemen, u'Rekikei Matzos Meshuchim ba'Shemen") -
that the Torah is speaking about two different Korbanos (as if it had
written Korban twice), one pertaining to Chalos, the other, to Rekikin.
***** Hadran Alach 'Kol ha'Menachos' *****
(b) According to Rebbi Shimon, however, the Torah repeats "ba'Shemen", to
teach us - that he has the option of bringing either Chalos or Rekikin
(because otherwise, he would learn from the one "Korban" that one is
obligated to bring half of each).
(c) Rebbi Yossi b'Rebbi appears to echo his father's opinion. He argues
with him however, in that - he will invalidate the Korban Bedieved, if one
brought half of each, in the same way as mixing a ''Belulah" (a Minchas
Nedavah) and a "Chareivah" (a Minchas Chotei, would be Pasul Bedieved);
whereas according to Rebbi Yehudah, it will be Kasher (based on the
principle that whatever is not repeated in the realm of Kodshim, is Kasher
***** Perek Rebbi Yishmael *****
(a) According to Rebbi Yishmael, when the sixteenth of Nisan falls on
Shabbos, the Omer comprises three Sa'ah of barley - five Sa'ah, when it
falls on a weekday.
(b) From the three or five Sa'ah of barley that they initially cut, they
obtain - one Isaron of flour, after sifting it many times.
(c) According to the Chachamim ...
1. ... they cut three Sa'ah of barley, both on Shabbos and on a weekday -.
(d) Rebbi Chanina S'gan ha'Kohanim maintains - that they use only one scythe
and one box when the Omer falls on Shabbos, but three of each when it falls
on a weekday.
2. ... they use three scythes and three boxes on Shabbos as they use on a
weekday, when cutting the Omer.
(e) They also argue about how many men Beis-Din send to cut the barley on
Shabbos, though on a weekday they both agree that it is three - and
according to the Chachamim, that is how many they sent on Shabbos. But
according to Rebbi Yishmael, on Shabbos they send only one.
(a) The Chachamim hold that three Sa'ah of barley is required to obtain one
Isaron of the finest quality. The problem with Rebbi Yishmael is - that 'Mah
Nafshach', if five Sa'ah produdes the best-quality Isaron, then why do they
not cut five Sa'ah on Shabbos, too? Whereas if three is sufficient, then why
do they cut five when the Omer falls on a weekday?
(b) Rava answers - that one obtains the best-quality flour from five Sa'ah,
by producing less from each Sa'ah, without having to sift it so many times;
whereas obtaining a near-comparable quality flour from three Sa'ah, requires
sifting it more times. And Rebbi Yishmael prefers the latter method on
Shabbos, which entails more sifting, but minimizes the other Melachos needed
to obtain the extra two Sa'ah (reaping, winnowing, selecting, grinding and
the initial sifting, for the extra two Sa'ah), even though the result is not
quite as perfect.
(a) Rabah tries to equate Rebbi Yishmael with Rebbi Yishmael B'no shel Rebbi
Yochanan ben Berokah - who permits skinning the Korban Pesach on the
fourteenth of Nisan that falls on Shabbos only up to the chest (because he
considers any more than that an unnecessary Tircha).
(b) The Rabbanan - permit the skinning to be completed.
(c) We reject Rabah's suggestion however, on two scores. Rebbi Yishmael ...
1. ... in our Sugya might well agree with the Rabbanan that one is permitted
to complete the skinning of the Korban Pesach - because of 'Bizayon Kodshim'
(it is a denigrating of Kodshim to leave them lying half skinned until
2. ... B'no shel Rebbi Yochanan ben Berokah there, on the other hand, might
well agree with the Rabbanan in our Sugya - because whereas there, skinning
the animal up to the heart enables them to remove the innards (which is the
purpose of the skinning at that stage) to completion, here the Omer reaches
a higher stage of perfection if they prepare five Sa'ah (as we explained).