ANSWERS TO REVIEW QUESTIONS
prepared by Rabbi Eliezer Chrysler
Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Jerusalem
Previous daf Menachos 12
(a) Our Mishnah rules that a Minchah whose Kemitzah the Kohen took, having
in mind to eat the Shirayim or a k'Zayis of the Shirayim ...
1. ... outside the Azarah - is Pasul, but that whoever eats it is not Chayav
Kareis. Note, the Chiyuv Kareis for eating Pigul takes effect immediately
after the Machshavah, and not just after the allotted time has expired.
(b) ... and exactly the same distinction will apply if the Kohen had in mind
to burn the Kometz or the Levonah or to burn a k'Zayis of the Kometz outside
the Azarah, or on the following day. The Tana omits the case of eating or
burning a k'Zayis of Levonah - because it is a S'tam Mishnah like Rebbi
Shimon, who validates the Levonah, if only a k'Zayis of the Levonah remains.
2. ... after the allotted time (i.e. one day, like all Kodshei Kodshim) - is
Pigul, and whoever eats it is Chayav Kareis.
(c) The Toras Kohanim learns from the Pasuk ...
1. ... "ve'Im He'achol Ye'achel mi'Besar Zevach Shelamav ba'Yom ha'Shelishi
... ha'Makriv Oso" - that the Halachah in question concerns Pigul (a P'sul
Machshavah), and not just Nosar (a Korban that was left over after the
(d) Whereas the Pasuk (in connection with Pigul) "ve'Nefesh ha'Ocheles
Mimenu Avonah Tisa", teaches us that a Machsheves '*Chutz li'Zemano*' is
subject to Kareis, but not 'Chutz li'Mekomo'.
2. ... (also in connection with Pigul) "Im He'achol Ye'achel ba'Yom
ha'Shelishi ... ha'Ocheles Mimenu Avonah Tisa" - ('Im Eino Inyan') that this
refers to a Machsheves Chutz li'Mekomo' (and not Chutz li'Zemano).
(a) Besides Kometz, a Minchah can become Pigul - during the Nesinas K'li,
Holachah or Haktarah.
(b) If the Kohen intends to burn the Shirayim, or to eat the Kometz in the
wrong place or at the wrong time - the Minchah remains Kasher, because
neither is the Shirayim is not meant to be burned nor the Kometz, to be
eaten, in which case the principle 'Batlah Da'ato Eitzel Adam' (his mind is
Bateil to that of everybody else) will apply.
(c) In addition, if the Minchah is Pasul in any other way ('Lo Kirvu
ha'Matir ke'Mitzvaso'), the P'sul or the Pigul will not take effect either.
(d) Despite the fact that there is no Pasuk connecting Minchah to the Dinim
of Pigul, we know that it is - because we learn it from a Hekesh to Chatas
("Kodesh Kodashim Hi ka'Chatas ... ", which we cited earlier).
(a) By ...
1. ... 'Karav ha'Matir ke'Mitzvaso', the Tana means - that the Kohen
performed all the other Avodos without a wrong Machshavah or even with the
same Machshavah ('she'Lo bi'Zemano' or 'she'Lo bi'Mekomo' respectively).
(b) The additional case of 'Lo Karav ha'Matir ke'Mitzvaso' that exists by
Minchas Chotei and Minchas Kena'os but not by other Menachos is - Machsheves
she'Lo li'Shemah, which invalidates them (like it does a Chatas), but not
2. ... 'Lo Karav ha'Matir ke'Mitzvaso', he means that he performed one of
the other Avodos with a different Machsheves P'sul.
(c) The Tana rules that in a case where the Kohen had a dual Machshavah by
the same Avodah, to eat ...
1. ... a k'Zayis ba'Chutz and a k'Zayis le'Machar - it is also considered
'Lo Karav ha'Matir ke'Mitzvaso', and there is no Chiyuv Kareis for
subsequently eating the Minchah ...
2. ... and the same will apply to a dual Machshavah of a Chatzi Zayis
ba'Chutz and a Chatzi Zayis le'Machar (since two Machshavos of Achilah
(a) In the above cases, the Tana Kama does not draw a distinction between
which Machshavah came first. According to Rebbi Yehudah however - if the
Machshaves Chutz li'Zemano preceded the Machsheves Chutz li'Mekomo, the
Chiyuv Kareis remains ...
(b) ... irrespective of whether the two Machshavos occurred by two Avodos or
(c) The Chachamim say 'Zeh ve'Zeh Pasul ve'Ein Bo Kareis'.
(a) Earlier, we cited Rebbi Yochanan, who permits the Kometz to be burned if
the Shirayim became Chaser after the Kemitzah - though the Kohen may not eat
(b) We now ask whether the Minchah will become Pigul, if the Kohen has a
Machshavah to eat the Shirayim Chutz li'Zemano, like it does in a regular
case. The reason that it might not is - because when all's said and done,
they are not eaten, and it is like a Machshavah to eat something that is not
fit to be eaten, which is not considered a Machshavah, as we just learned.
(c) The other ramification this She'eilah has - concerns Me'ilah, because
normally, burning the Kometz removes the Chiyuv Me'ilah from the Shirayim.
In fact, once something becomes subject to Pigul, it is no longer subject to
(a) Rav Huna differentiates between the current She'eilah and the Din of
Zerikah regarding Kodshim that was Yotzei, according to Rebbi Akiva. Rebbi
Akiva rules - that Zerikas ha'Dam removes the Chiyuv Me'ilah from a Korban
that is taken outside the Azarah after being Shechted.
(b) In our case (of Chaser), says Rav Huna - even Rebbi Akiva will agree
that the Haktarah will not affect the Shirayim she'Chasru ... , seeing as
(unlike the animal that was Yotzei, which is entirely intact and Pasul only
due to external circumstances [the air of Yerushalayim]), the Shirayim
she'Chasru, is an intrinsic P'sul.
(c) Rava disagrees. According to him, even Rebbi Eliezer, who rules that
Zerikas ha'Dam is not effective regarding Yotzei - will agree that here it
(d) ... because, unlike Yotzei - the Shirayim that remains is still inside
(a) Rava proves his point from our Mishnah ' ... Le'echol Shirehah ba'Chutz
O k'Zayis mi'Shirehah ba'Chutz'. Rebbi Chiya, in a Beraisa, omitted 'O
k'Zayis' from this statement - because he interprets 'O k'Zayis' with regard
to 'Nasan bi'Cheli, Molich and Maktir' as meaning that the Shirayim became
Chaser and now stood at a k'Zayis ...
(b) ... whereas in the case of 'O k'Zayis mi'Komtzah', the Tana must be
referring to a k'Zayis from a complete Kometz, but not to a Kometz (i.e. the
Minchah) that became Chaser before the Kemitzah - since that would then be a
case of 'Minchah she'Chasrah Kodem Kemitzah', which is Pasul.
(c) Rebbi Chiya in fact - does not argue with Rebbi in principle, only he
did not want to include two different cases ('Shirayim she'Chasru' and
'k'Zayis mi'Kometz' in his Beraisa).
(d) Rava now proves from the Seifa of the Mishnah 'Pigul, ve'Chayavin Alav
Kareis' - that 'Shirayim she'Chasru bein Kemitzah le'Haktarah, Maktir
(a) Abaye refutes Rava's proof, by establishing Rebbi Chiya's Beraisa like
Rebbi Elazar in the Mishnah in Zevachim. The Tana Kama there obligates a
Kohen who sacrifices ba'Chutz, a k'Zayis of 'Kometz, Levonah, Ketores,
Minchas Kohen Mashi'ach', and 'Minchas Nesachim' - which are all totally
(b) Rebbi Elazar - exempts the Kohen, unless he brings the entire object.
(c) Rebbi Chiya therefore omits 'O k'Zayis' by 'Le'echol Shirehah
ba'Chutz' - because, seeing as the author is Rebbi Elazar, it cannot say 'O
k'Zayis mi'Komtzah' (as we just explained).
(d) We query this on the grounds that, according to Rebbi Elazar, the Tana
should have stated (not just 'Lehaktir Komtzah ba'Chutz', but) 'Lehaktir
Komtzah u'Levonasah ba'Chutz' - because Rebbi Elazar also exempts the Kohen,
unless he brought both the Kometz and the Levonah ba'Chutz (seeing as they
are both Matir)?
(a) So we establish the Beraisa by a Minchas Chotei - which does not contain
(b) It is (a Dochek, but) acceptable to limit the Tana to one solitary,
(c) Rebbi Dimi Amar Rebbi Elazar (ben P'das) -also establishes Rebbi Chiya's
Beraisa like Rebbi Elazar (ben Shamua), and by a Minchas Chotei.
(d) Rava subsequently retracted from his previous stance - where he held
'Mehanyah Leih Haktarah le'Shirayim she'Chasru' (even according to Rebbi
(a) The Beraisa that he cites comments on the fact that the Torah writes (in
connection with the Lechem ha'Panim) "Kodesh Kodshim Hu Lo" (in the
singular) - that if only one of the Loaves becomes broken, all twelve are
(b) Rava extrapolates from there 'Ha Yatzas, Hani de'Ika Gava'i,
Kesheiros' - a proof that the author of the Beraisa is Rebbi Akiva, who
holds 'Zerikah Mo'eles le'Yotzei', yet he holds 'Ein Zerikah Mo'eles
le'Chaser' (like Rav Huna's original contention).
(c) Once again, Abaye refutes Rava's proof, by changing the inference to 'Ha
Nitma'as, Hani de'Ika Gava'i, Kesheiros' (but not 'Yatza'as') - in which
case the author could be Rebbi Eliezer, who holds 'Ein Zerikah Mo'eles
(d) What makes Nitma'as better than Nifresah and Yatza'as is - the fact the
Tzitz is Meratzeh for Tumah.
(a) Rebbi Eliezer presents the case of 'Nifresah Achas me'Chalosehah' and
not 'Yatz'ah' - to teach us that even 'Nifresah', where the Chalah is still
in the Azarah, the Haktarah will not be effective.
(b) Rebbi Akiva will then hold - that in the case of 'Nifresah', the other
Loaves are Kasher, because just as Zerikah helps by Yotzei, so too, will
Haktarah help by Chaser.
(a) Our Mishnah rules - 'Le'echol Chatzi Zayis u'Le'Haktir Chatzi Zayis,
(le'Machar) Kasher' - because Achilas Adam and Haktarah do not combine.
(b) From the fact that the Tana presents the case of 'Le'echol ...
u'Lehaktir', we extrapolate - that 'Le'echol Ve'le'echol Davar she'Ein Darko
(c) To avoid a discrepancy between this Mishnah and the Reisha 'Le'echol
Davar she'Darko Le'echol, u'Lehaktir Davar she'Darko Lehaktir (to preclude
'Davar she'Ein Darko Le'echol ... u'Lehaktir', which is therefore not
Mitztaref either), Rebbi Yirmiyah establishes the Reisha like Rebbi Eliezer,
who rules in the Mishnah in 'ha'Kometz Rabah' - 'ha'Kometz es ha'Minchah
Le'echol Davar she'Ein Davar Le'echol ... ', Pasul (since he considers it a
(a) Abaye disagrees with Rebbi Yirmiyah, establishing the Seifa even like
the Rabbanan of Rebbi Eliezer, who hold 'Ein Mechashvin me'Achilas Adam
la'Achilas Mizbe'ach', and we then extrapolate from the Mishnah - 'Ha
Le'echol ve'Le'echol Davar she'Darko Le'echol, Mitztarfin' (to make up a
***** Hadran Alach 'Kol ha'Menachos *****
(b) The problem with this is - why we need this Mishnah at all. The Tana
cannot be coming to teach us ...
1. ... that 'Le'echol ve'Le'echol Davar she'Ein Davar Le'echol do not
combine - because we can extrapolate this already from the Reisha, as we saw
a little earlier.
(c) We conclude that in fact, the Tana is coming to teach us the intrinsic
Halachah 'Le'echol u'Lehaktir Ein Mitztarfin'. We overrule the previous
objection (that this is a 'Kal- va'Chomer' from 'Le'echol ve'Le'echol Davar
she'Ein Darko Le'echol') - with the Pircha that whereas 'Le'echol Davar
she'Ein Darko Le'echol' is unconventional, both 'Le'echol' and 'Lehaktir'
are conventional, and the Tana needs to teach that nevertheless, they do not
2. ... that 'Le'echol u'Lehaktir' do not combine - because that is a
'Kal-va'Chomer from 'Le'echol ve'Le'echol Davar she'Ein Darko Le'echol'.