POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Previous daf Menachos 63
1) "MARCHESHES" AND "MACHAVAS"
(a) (Mishnah): One who says 'Alai b'Machavas (it is incumbent
on me to bring a Minchah cooked in a Machavas) may not
bring in a Marcheshes, and vice-versa.
2) THE "MINCHAH MA'AFEH TANUR"
(b) Question: What is the difference between Machavas and
(c) Answer #1 (R. Yosi): A Marcheshes has a cover, a Machavas
(d) Answer #2 (R. Chanina ben Gamliel): A Marcheshes is deep,
bread cooked in it is springy (some texts - and soft), a
Machavas is shallow, bread cooked in it is hard.
(e) (Gemara) Question: What is R. Yosi's reason?
1. Suggestion: We learn from "Rachash Libi Davar Tov"
that the word 'Marcheshes' is related to
'*Rechushei* ha'Lev', i.e. hidden thoughts in the
(f) Answer: He has a tradition from Sinai.
i. 'Machavas' suggests 'Machbu'ei ha'Peh' (such as
gossip, which is open), like people say
2. Rejection: We could also learn differently - "Lamah
Nachbeisa Livro'ach" teaches that Machavas is
related to Machbo'ei (hidden matters of) the heart;
i. Marcheshes is related to Rechushei (moving,
i.e. of the lips), as people say, Merachashan
(g) (Mishnah - R. Chanina ben Gamliel): A Marcheshes...
(h) He learns that a Marcheshes is deep from "V'Chol Na'asah
*va*'Marcheshes" (implying that the bread is inside);
1. He learns that a Machavas is shallow from "V'Al
Machavas" (the bread is on top).
(i) (Beraisa - Beis Shamai): (Mishnah): One who says 'Alai
Marcheshes' should not fulfill his vow until Eliyahu will
come (and resolve our doubt);
1. We do not know if Marcheshes is the name of the pot
(if so, his vow was to donate a pot to Hekdesh), or
if it describes the consistency of the Minchah (if
so, he vowed to bring a Minchah.)
(j) Beis Hillel say, it is the name of a pot;
1. It was like a deep pan with craters in which the
dough would get cooked;
(k) Since it says "*Va*'Marcheshes" and "*V'Al* Machavas"
(changing between 'in' and 'on'), this shows that these
are names of Kelim.
2. When the dough was inside, it looked like acorns.
(a) (Mishnah): If one said 'Alai (to bring a Minchah baked)
in a Tanur', he may not bring a Minchah baked in a Kupach
(a small oven with room for one pot on top), on tiles or
in pots of Aravim;
(b) R. Yehudah says, he may bring a Minchah baked in a
(c) If one said 'Alai Minchas Ma'afeh (a Minchah baked in a
Tanur)', he may not bring half Chalos and half Rekikim
(rather, he must bring the whole Minchah from one of
(d) R. Shimon permits this, for they are the same species of
(e) (Gemara - Beraisa): "Ma'afeh Tanur" - not something
cooked in a Kupach, on tiles or in pots of Aravim;
(f) R. Yehudah says, it says "Tanur" twice to Machshir a
Minchah baked in a Kupach;
(g) R. Shimon says, it says "Tanur" twice - one teaches that
they are baked in a Tanur, the other teaches that
Hekdeshan b'Tanur (the oven is Mekadesh them.)
(h) Question: Does R. Shimon really hold that the Tanur is
Mekadesh Menachos?! (Tosfos - there is only one Tanur in
the Mikdash for all Menachos.)
1. (Mishnah - R. Shimon): Shtei ha'Lechem and Lechem
ha'Panim may be baked in the Azarah, or in Beis Pagi
(outside the Azarah.)
(i) Answer (Rava): 'Hekdeshan b'Tanur' means, one must
Mekadesh the flour with intent to bake it in a Tanur.
2. (Opinions differ about how this shows that R. Shimon
cannot hold that the oven is Mekadesh. Rashi - if
so, the Lechem would be Nifsal on account of Yotzei.
Tosfos (9A) - if so, it would be a disgrace for the
Lechem to be outside. Rambam (according to R. Akiva
Eiger) - the Lechem would be Nifsal on account of
Linah (R. Shimon holds that Shtei ha'Lechem are not
Docheh Yom Tov, they must be baked before Yom Tov.)
R. Gershom - Klei Shares are not Mekadesh outside,
the bread would not become Kodesh.
(j) (Mishnah): If one said 'Alai Minchas Ma'afe', he may not
(k) (Beraisa): "V'Chi Sakriv" - when you want to offer
(Ma'afeh Tanur is optional);
1. Question (R. Yehudah): What is the source that if
one said 'Alai Minchas Ma'afe', he may not bring
half Chalos and half Rekikim?
2. Answer #1 (R. Yehudah): "Korban Minchah" - it must
be one Korban, not two or three.
3. R. Shimon: If it said "Korban" regarding each of
them twice, we would expound that way - however, it
only says "Korban" once, and it says Chalos and
***** PEREK R. YISHMAEL ****
(l) Question: R. Shimon's objection is strong! (How does R.
Yehudah answer it?)
i. This teaches that one may bring (only) Chalos,
(only) Rekikim; or, half (really, some) of the
10 loaves Chalos, the rest Rekikim;
4. Answer #2 (R. Yosi b'Rebbi Yehudah): "V'Chol Minchah
Asher Te'afeh ba'Tanur v'Chol Na'asah va'Marcheshes
v'Al Machavas...V'Chol Minchah Velulah va'Shemen
va'Charevah" - just like Marcheshes and Machavas
(also Belulah and Charevah) are two distinct types
of Menachos that may not be offered together, also
what is mentioned beforehand (Ma'afeh Tanur, i.e.
Chalos and Rekikim.)
ii. When bringing some of each, they are crumbled
up and kneaded together with oil; a Kometz is
taken from the mixture, if the entire Kometz
was from one of them it is valid.
(m) Answer: R. Yehudah holds that since it says "Shemen" with
each of them, it is as if it says Korban with each of
1. R. Shimon argues - had it said Shemen only once, one
might have thought that Ma'afeh Tanur must be
brought half Chalos and half Rekikim.
(n) Question: What is the difference between R. Yehudah and
R. Yosi b'Rebbi Yehudah?
2. Rather, it says "Shemen" with each of them to teach
that (alternatively,) either of them may be brought
(o) Answer: They argue about b'Diavad (R. Yehudah is Machshir
if both were brought together, R. Yosi is Posel.)
3) REAPING THE "OMER"
(a) (Mishnah - R. Yishmael): If the day of the Omer (Nisan
16) is Shabbos, the Isaron is sifted from three Sa'im (of
barley); on a weekday, it is sifted from five Sa'im.
(b) Chachamim say, whether or not it is Shabbos, it is sifted
from three Sa'im.
(c) (The barley is reaped the previous night.) R. Chanina
Segan ha'Kohanim says, if this is Shabbos, it was reaped
by one person using one sickle and one box; otherwise, it
was reaped by three people, each uses his own sickle and
his own box;
(d) Chachamim say, whether or not it is Shabbos, it is reaped
by three people, each with his own sickle and box.
(e) (Gemara) Question: We understand Chachamim - they hold
that a choice Isaron is sifted from three Sa'im, whether
or not it is Shabbos;
1. But what is R. Yishmael's opinion?
(f) Answer (Rava): He holds that a choice Isaron is easily
sifted from five Sa'im, but one must sift many times to
get a choice Isaron from three Sa'im;
i. If he holds that a choice Isaron comes from
five Sa'im, this should be done even on
Shabbos; if it comes from three Sa'im, this
should be done even on a weekday!
1. On a weekday, it is better to sift it from five
(Rashi - the entire Isaron will be very fine flour;
Rashash - Hekdesh should not resemble a poor person
who sifts many times to get as much as possible from
a small amount);
(g) (Rabah): R. Yishmael and R. Yishmael the son of R.
Yochanan ben Brokah agree with each other:
2. On Shabbos (it is sifted from three, for) it is
better to do more than is needed of one Melachah,
sifting, than to do more than is needed of many
Melachos (to reap, winnow, select, grind and sift an
extra two Sa'im).
1. (Beraisa - R. Yishmael, son of R. Yochanan ben
Brokah): If Erev Pesach is on Shabbos, the Korban
Pesach is flayed until the chest (on Shabbos), the
rest is flayed at night;
2. Chachamim say, it is flayed entirely on Shabbos.
3. For the sake of the Omer, R. Yishmael allows a
minimal exertion on Shabbos - likewise, he would
minimize exertion on Shabbos to flay Korban Pesach.