POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
Ask A Question on the daf
Previous daf Kesuvos 4
1) THE CHUPAH WHICH PUSHES OFF MOURNING
(a) They have marital relations, but afterwards they
2) THE SEPARATION OF THE BRIDE AND GROOM
(b) They celebrate the 7 days of partying (of newlyweds),
followed by 7 days of mourning.
1. All 14 days, he sleeps among men, and/or she among
(c) The bride may use cosmetics as she desires, even during
the first 30 days of mourning.
(d) All this only applies when the Chasan's father or bride's
mother died, for no one else will toil to prepare another
Chupah; if the Chasan's mother or bride's father died,
the burial and mourning precede the Chupah.
(e) (Rav Chisda): Permission to postpone the burial and
mourning on account of having slaughtered animals only
applies if water was put on the meat; otherwise, the meat
can be sold.
1. (Rava): In a large city, even if water was put on
the meat, it can be sold (so we must delay the
(f) Question: If so, where does Rav Chisda's law apply?
2. (Rav Papa): In a village, even if water was not put
on the meat, it cannot be sold (so we may delay the
burial and mourning).
(g) Answer (Rav Ashi): In a middle-sized city.
(h) A Beraisa supports Rav Chisda.
(i) (Beraisa): Also, if the bride becomes Nidah, he sleeps
among men, and/or she among women.
(j) Whether or not there is an Ones, the first act of marital
relations may not be on Shabbos night nor Saturday night.
(a) The Beraisa taught that he sleeps among men, and/or she
(b) This supports R. Yochanan, who says that even though we
do not show signs of mourning on a festival (and a Chasan
has the same law as a festival), private matters (i.e.
relations) are forbidden.
(c) (Rav Yosef Brei d'Rava): We only say that he sleeps among
men, and/or she among women, if they have not yet had
(d) Question: But the Beraisa says that they sleep among
men/women, even though they have had relations!
(e) Answer: Rav Yosef only referred to the case where she
(f) Question: But the Beraisa says "And so" (which connotes
that the cases are identical)!
(g) Answer: It means, "and so, a bride who became Nidah
before they had relations", they sleep among men/women.
3) THE LENIENCY OF THIS MOURNING
(h) We are more stringent by mourning than by Nidah - it must
be, the Chasan is not as careful to refrain from
relations during mourning, as he is to refrain from
relations with a Nidah.
(i) Question (R. Yitzchak Bar Chanina): a Nidah may do
everything a woman does for her husband, except for
mixing his drink, making his bed, and washing his face,
hands and feet(and this is more stringent than by a
1. (Beraisa): Even though a man may not force his wife
to color her eyes and Pokeses (a type of
beautification) during her mourning, she may mix his
drink, make his bed, and wash his face, hands and
(j) Answer#1: That refers to her mourning; the restrictions
of a man during his own mourning are more stringent than
those of a Nidah.
1. Question: The Beraisa said that they sleep among men
and women, whether the Chasan's father or bride's
(k) Answer#2 (Rav Ashi): A person is normally careful about
mourning. In our case, we were lenient, so we must add
stringencies so he will not treat it lightly.
2. Answer: The case where the bride's mother died was
taught regarding the postponement of burial and
mourning, not regarding the need to sleep among
3. Question: Is there really a difference between his
and her mourning?
4. (Beraisa): If a woman lost a parent, her husband
cannot force her to color her eyes and Pokeses;
rather, he inverts his bed and mourns with her;
5. Similarly, if a man lost a parent, his wife may not
color her eyes and Pokeses; rather, she inverts her
bed and mourns with him.
6. Answer: During his mourning, they sleep among
7. Question: But it says, "And so"!
8. Answer: This refers to coloring eyes and Pokeses.
9. Question: It says, she mourns with him - doesn't
this mean, in the same bed?
10. Answer: No, it means in his presence.
11. Chiya's wife was a mourner; Rav told his son Chiya
to conduct as a mourner only in front of her.
(a) Question: What is the leniency of this mourning?
1. If you will say, that they may have relations before
the burial - this is no leniency, mourning has not
(b) Answer: The leniency is that the week of mourning is
postponed until after the 7 days of festivities.
i. R. Eliezer says that mourning begins when the
coffin leaves the house.
ii. R. Yehoshua says that mourning begins from the
sealing of the coffin.
(c) (Beraisa): Whether or not there is an Ones, the first act
of relations may not be on Shabbos night nor Saturday
1. We understand that Shabbos night is not allowed,
because he makes a wound.
(d) Question: What is the problem with Saturday night?