POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Previous daf Horayos 9
HORAYOS 9-10 - One week of study material has been dedicated by Mrs. Rita
Grunberger of Queens, N.Y., in loving memory of her husband, Reb Yitzchok
Yakov ben Eliyahu Grunberger. Irving Grunberger helped many people quietly
in an unassuming manner and is dearly missed by all who knew him. His
Yahrzeit is 10 Sivan.
1) THOSE EXEMPT FROM "OLEH V'YORED"
(a) Answer #2: Rather, he learns as follows.
2) THE DIFFERENT "CHATA'OS"
1. (Beraisa - R. Yirmeyah): It says "He will not be
able to afford" - this applies to someone who can
become poor or rich, to exclude a Nasi or a
Mashu'ach, who never become poor.
(b) Question (Ravina): If a Nasi transgressed (something for
which one brings Oleh v'Yored) and became a Metzora, what
is the law?
i. A Nasi is never poor - "Hash-m Elokav" -only
Hash-m is above him;
ii. A Mashu'ach is never poor - "The Kohen that is
greater than his brothers" - in beauty,
strength, Chachmah and wealth;
iii. Others say, "that is greater from his brothers"
- if he is not wealthiest, the other Kohanim
give him money to make him the wealthiest.
1. Is he exempt only while he is considered Nasi - but
now, he is liable?
(c) Answer (Rav Nachman bar Yitzchak): He pays from his
treasury, not from yours! (Rashi - his treasury never
runs out, so he is exempt; Ramah - since he must take
from his own wealth, he cannot currently collect taxes,
he is liable (as a regular wealthy person, who could wax
2. Or - since before he was unable to bring the Korban,
he never brings it?
(d) (Beraisa - R. Akiva): A Mashu'ach is exempt from all of
(e) Question (Rava): What is R. Akiva's reason?
(f) Answer (Rava): "This (Minchah) is the Korban of Aharon
and his children" - this is the only obligatory Minchah
of a Kohen Gadol.
(g) Question: Perhaps this excludes him only from the Korban
of the most destitute, a Minchah, but he brings the
Chatas of a (moderately) poor or rich person!
(h) Rejection: "The Kohen will atone for the sin that he
sinned, *me'Achas me'Eleh*" - one who gets atonement
through (any) one of these (a Minchah, bird or animal),
gets atonement through all; one who does atone through
(any) one of these, does not atone through any of them.
(i) Question: If so, we should also say "Ki Yesham l'Achas
me'Eleh" - one who is liable for (any) one of these (Oleh
v'Yored offerings), is liable for all; one who is not
liable for (any) one of these, is not liable for any of
1. (Mishnah - R. Akiva): A Nasi is liable for all,
except for Shevu'as ha'Edus.
(j) Answer (Abaye and Rava): The Tana expounds "l'Achas", he
does not expound "me'Achas".
(k) Question: Why does he only expound "l'Achas"?
(l) Answer: The Torah wrote this at the end, regarding the
Minchah, to teach that anyone that can bring the cheapest
Korban can bring the others;
1. If the Halachah was that one who is exempt from one
of these is liable for the others, "l'Achas" should
have been written regarding an animal or bird.
(a) (Mishnah): A commoner brings a Se'irah or Kisvah for any
Mitzvah punishable by Kares (b'Mezid) and a Chatas
1. The Nasi brings a (male) Sa'ir; a Mashu'ach or Beis
Din brings Parim.
(b) A commoner or Nasi brings Asham Taluy, a Mashu'ach or
Beis Din is exempt.
(c) A commoner, Nasi or Mashu'ach brings Asham Vadai, Beis
Din is exempt.
2. For idolatry, a commoner, Nasi or Mashu'ach brings a
Se'irah; Beis Din brings a Par for an Olah and a
(male) Sa'ir for a Chatas.
(d) R. Shimon says, for Shevu'as ha'Edus, Shevu'as Bituy, or
Tum'ah (of the Mikdash and Kodshim), Beis Din is exempt,
a commoner or Nasi is liable;
1. A Mashu'ach is liable for either Shevu'ah, he is
exempt for Tum'ah;
(e) Whoever is liable brings the standard Oleh v'Yored;
1. R. Eliezer says, a Nasi brings a Sa'ir.
(f) (Gemara - Beraisa - R. Shimon): The general rule is,
whenever a commoner brings Asham Taluy, a Nasi does also;
a Mashu'ach or Beis Din is exempt;
(g) Whenever a commoner brings Asham Vadai, a Nasi or
Mashu'ach does also, Beis Din is exempt;
1. For Shevu'as ha'Edus, Shevu'as Bituy, or Tum'ah of
the Mikdash and Kodshim, Beis Din is exempt, a
commoner, Nasi or Mashu'ach is liable (for at least
some of these);
(h) A Nasi is like a commoner regarding Oleh v'Yored; a
Mashu'ach or Beis Din is exempt.
2. A Nasi is exempt for Shevu'as ha'Edus, a Mashu'ach
is exempt for Tum'ah;
(i) Question: The Beraisa contradicts itself!
1. It exempts a Mashu'ach for Tum'ah, implying that he
is liable for either Shevu'ah;
2. Then it says that a Nasi is like a commoner
regarding Oleh v'Yored; a Mashu'ach or Beis Din is
i. Just as Beis Din is exempt from all of them,
also a Mashu'ach!
(j) Answer (Rav Huna brei d'Rav Yehoshua): A Mashu'ach is
exempt from the cheapest Korban (a Minchah), but not from
a bird or animal (if he is moderately poor or rich).
3) R. ELIEZER'S OPINION
1. R. Shimon agrees with R. Akiva (who totally exempts
a Mashu'ach) in one respect, and argues in another:
(k) (Mishnah - R. Shimon): However, a Mashu'ach is exempt for
2. He agrees that he is exempt from bringing a Minchah,
but not from a bird or animal.
(l) Question (Chizkiyah): What is R. Shimon's reason?
(m) Answer #1 (Chizkiyah): He learns from "That soul will be
cut off from the Tzibur" - this refers to someone whose
Korban is like that of the Tzibur;
1. This excludes a Mashu'ach, who brings a different
(n) Answer #2 (Rava): The verse discusses one who is liable
for sin like (a minority of) the Tzibur (i.e. for
Shegagah alone - this excludes a Mashu'ach).
2. Question: Also a Nasi brings a different Korban!
3. Answer: A Nasi gets atonement with the Tzibur
(through the Sa'ir) on Yom Kipur.
4. Question: If so, all Kohanim should be exempt, for
their atonement on Yom Kipur is through the Par!
5. Answer: Regular Kohanim get atonement with the
Tzibur (when Parim for mistaken Hora'ah are
6. Objection: A Mashu'ach also gets atonement with the
(a) (Mishnah): R. Eliezer says, a Nasi brings a Sa'ir...
(b) (R. Yochanan): R. Eliezer says this only regarding Tum'ah
of the Mikdash and Kodshim, which are Chayavei Kerisus,
just like sins punishable by a fixed Chatas.
(c) Support (Rav Papa): Surely R. Eliezer does not say this
regarding every Oleh v'Yored!
1. The Sa'ir of a Nasi and the Par of a Mashu'ach are
in place of the Chatas of a commoner; if R. Eliezer
held that a Nasi brings a Sa'ir for every Oleh
v'Yored, he should also say that a Mashu'ach brings
a Par for (every one, including) Tum'ah!
(d) Question (Rav Huna brei d'Rav Noson): Perhaps R. Eliezer
said this for every Oleh v'Yored; he did not mention a
Mashu'ach, because he holds like R. Akiva, that a
Mashu'ach is exempt for all of them!
2. Since he did not say this, he must hold that a Nasi
only brings for Tum'ah, for which a Mashu'ach is
(e) Answer (Rav Papa): R. Akiva only said that he does not
bring Oleh v'Yored, but he brings a Par.
(f) (R. Yochanan): R. Eliezer admits that a Nasi does not
bring an Asham (Taluy).
(g) (A reciter of Beraisos): An Asham Taluy is brought for
Tum'ah of the Mikdash and Kodshim.
(h) Question (Rav Sheshes): Do you think that because they
are Chayavei Kerisus and a Nasi brings a Sa'ir, an Asham
Taluy is also brought for them?!
1. R. Yochanan taught, R. Eliezer admits that a Nasi
does not bring an Asham Taluy!
2. This is left difficult.