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Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Previous daf Chulin 98
CHULIN 96-98 - Sponsored by a generous grant from an anonymous donor.
Kollel Iyun Hadaf is indebted to him for his encouragement and support and
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1) FORBIDDEN ABSORPTIONS OF EGGS
(a) (Rav Nachman): An egg does not forbid a mixture 60 times
its own size, it itself is not counted towards 60.
2) WHAT FRACTION CAN BECOME "BATUL"
(b) Question (Rav Idi bar Avin): This implies that eggs give
Ta'am - but people say, egg water (i.e. in which eggs
were cooked) is like plain water!
(c) Answer (Abaye): The case is, there was a chick inside the
1. Inference: Tamei eggs (i.e. of a Tamei bird) would
not forbid a mixture.
(d) Question (Beraisa): If Tamei eggs were cooked with and
give Ta'am to Tahor eggs, all are forbidden.
(e) Answer: 'Tamei' eggs means eggs with a chick inside.
(f) Question (Seifa): If eggs were cooked and a chick was
found inside one of them, if it gave Ta'am to them, they
are all forbidden.
1. This implies, the Reisha does not discuss chicks in
(g) Answer: The Seifa explains the Reisha.
1. (Beraisa): If Tamei eggs were cooked with and gave
taste to Tahor eggs, all are forbidden;
(h) Support: The Reisha cannot be when no chick is inside,
for then the Seifa would not need to forbid them when a
chick is found in one!
2. The case is, a chick was found inside one of them.
(i) Rejection: No, the Seifa must say this so we will not
think that the Reisha is when a chick is inside.
1. Since the Seifa is when a chick is inside, the
Reisha must be when no chick in inside, and even so
they are forbidden.
(a) A k'Zayis of Chelev fell into a pan of meat. Rav Ashi
thought to include what had been absorbed by the pot in
the calculation of whether or not there was enough Heter
to Mevatel the Chelev.
(b) Rabanan: But the pot also absorbed Chelev! (If you will
reckon with absorbed Heter, you should also assume that
there was more than the k'Zayis of Chelev we see now.)
(c) A half-k'Zayis of Chelev fell into a pan of meat. Mar bar
Rav Ashi thought that if there was 30 times as much
Heter, it would Mevatel the Chelev.
1. Rav Ashi: Do not be lenient regarding the quantities
Chachamim fixed (i.e. 60 times);
(d) (Rav Shemen bar Aba): A (forbidden) egg among 60 forbids
all of them;
2. Also, you must be stringent because R. Yochanan
forbids mid'Oraisa even less than a Shi'ur (the
quantity for which one gets lashes or Kares, i.e.
1. If it is among 61, they are permitted.
(e) R. Zeira: People will understand that you permit if there
are 61 eggs including the forbidden egg - two giants of
the generation were unsure about this!
1. (R. Yakov bar Idi and R. Shmuel bar Nachmani, citing
R. Yehoshua ben Levi): A (forbidden) egg among 60
forbids all of them;
(f) (R. Chelbo): If 60 permitted eggs and one forbidden egg
became mixed, they are forbidden;
i. If it is among 61, they are permitted.
2. Question: Is the forbidden egg among the 61, or not?
3. They were unable to answer.
1. If 61 permitted eggs and one forbidden egg became
mixed, they are permitted.
(g) Version #1: A man came in front of R. Gamliel ben Rebbi;
half a k'Zayis of Isur had become mixed with 45 times as
1. R. Gamliel: My father permitted one part in 47 (of
Isur - this shows, we do not need 60) - I can permit
45. (Yerushalayimi (cited by Tosfos 64B Gi'ulei) -
the shells help to comprise 60 times the volume of
(h) Version #2: A man came in front of R. Gamliel ben Rebbi;
Isur was mixed with 45 times as much Heter.
2. A similar case occurred with R. Shimon ben Rebbi.
i. R. Shimon: My father permitted one part in 45 -
I can permit 43.
1. R. Gamliel: My father forbade one part in 47 -
should I permit 45?!
(i) A man came in front of R. Chiya.
2. A similar case occurred with R. Shimon, the son of
i. R. Shimon: My father did not permit one part in
45 - should I permit 43?!
1. R. Chiya: There isn't 30 times as much Heter as
(j) (R. Chiya bar Aba, citing Bar Kapara): Any Isur in the
Torah is Batul among 60 parts of Heter.
2. Question: If there would have been, would he have
3. Answer (R. Chanina): No - he was saying, there isn't
*even* 30 times as much Heter (but even then, it
would be forbidden)!
(k) (R. Shmuel bar Rav Yitzchak): Rav Asi cited Bar Kapara to
say that it is Batul among 100 parts of Heter.
(l) Both opinions learn from (Bitul of) the foreleg of Ayl
Nazir - "V'Lakach ha'Kohen Es ha'Zero'a Beshelah".
1. (Beraisa): "Beshelah" teaches that it is cooked
3) DO OTHER "ISURIM" BECOME "BATUL"?
2. R. Shimon says, this teaches that it is cooked with
(m) The opinion that says 60 times learns from Bitul of the
meat and bones of the foreleg among the meat and bones of
the ram (which are 60 times as much);
3. Version #1: All agree that it is cooked with the
ram, they argue only whether it is cut off before or
after cooking. (Rashi - Chachamim say it is first
cut off; Tosfos - R. Shimon holds this way.)
4. Version #2: All agree that it is cut off before
cooking; they argue whether or not it is cooked with
the ram. (Chachamim say it is not, R. Shimon says
that it is.)
i. According to Version #1, all agree that it is
cooked with the ram; even though the Zero'a is
forbidden to Zarim, the rest of the ram is
permitted to anyone, i.e. the Ta'am of the
Zero'a is Batul in the ram.
ii. According to Version #2, we learn this from R.
1. The opinion that says 100 times learns from Bitul of
the meat of the foreleg among the meat of the ram
(which is 100 times as much; we ignore the bones,
for they do not give or absorb Ta'am.)
(a) Question: Do we really learn from the Zero'a to other
1. (Beraisa): *This* is the case of something forbidden
(b) Answer #1 (Abaye): The Beraisa is like R. Yehudah, who
says that Min b'Mino (an Isur mixed with the Heter that
looks and tastes the same) is never Batul; the Zero'a is
the only exception.
2. Suggestion: 'This' excludes other Isurim!
1. Question: We should learn from the Zero'a to other
2. Answer: (On Yom Kipur, we mix the bloods of the goat
and bull that are offered in the Kodesh
ha'Kodoshim.) Dam ha'Sa'ir is not Batul in Dam
ha'Par, even though the bull has more blood - this
teaches that Min b'Mino is never Batul.
3. Question: Why do we learn from the bloods, and not
from the Zero'a (which is Batul)?
4. Answer: Zero'a is a Chidush (we Mevatel an Isur
l'Chatchilah), so we may not learn from it.
5. Question: If so, we should not learn from it that an
Isur (b'Eino Mino, i.e. mixed with dissimilar food)
is Batul in 60 or 100 parts of Heter!
6. Answer: We may not learn leniencies from a Chidush;
requiring 60 or 100 parts is a stringency;
i. Mid'Oraisa, an Isur is Batul in any majority!