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Chulin 77

CHULIN 76-78 - sponsored by Dr. Lindsay A. Rosenwald of Lawrence NY, in honor of his father, David ben Aharon ha'Levy Rosenwald of blessed memory.


(a) A break was covered by sinews.
1. Rava: There is no concern - R. Yochanan holds that sinews are as good as flesh.
i. (R. Yochanan): Sinews that harden (in a mature animal) are considered like meat regarding (eating) Korban Pesach.
2. Rava: Also, the Torah is concerned for the money of Yisrael (so we should not be stringent).
3. Objection (Rav Papa): How can you be lenient, against the opinion of Reish Lakish - the question involves a Torah Isur!
4. Rava was silent.
(b) Question: Why was Rava silent - he taught, the Halachah follows Reish Lakish against R. Yochanan in only three cases (not including this)!
(c) Answer: This case was not included, because R. Yochanan retracted to agree with Reish Lakish.
1. (R. Yochanan): Don't ask me from that Mishnah (which says that the skin of the head is considered meat, even though it will later harden) - it was taught by an individual, the Halachah does not follow it.
(d) A broken bone stuck out; a piece of it fell off. Abaye did not reach a conclusion.
(e) (Rava): The Mishnah says, if the majority of flesh remains, it is Kosher - we do not care if part of the bone fell off.
(f) Questions (Ravina): What if the surrounding flesh is scattered? If it is flattened out? If it is Mismasmes?
1. Question: What is 'Mismasmes'?
2. Answer (Rav Huna brei d'Rav Yehoshua): It is rotted flesh that a doctor scrapes away.
(g) Questions: If the flesh is punctured, or peeled off the bone, or cracked, or if the bottom third is missing, what is the law?
(h) Answer (to the last question - Ula): Skin is like flesh (if the skin is intact, even if the bottom third is missing, it is Kosher.)
(i) Rejection: Perhaps that is only when the skin is in its proper place (but here, it is far from where it should be.)
(j) Question (Rav Ashi): If the skin is like a ring (a large hole goes through), what is the law?
(k) Answer (Rav Yehudah): If the area is scraped with another bone, it will heal.
1. It should not be scraped with iron, for this will make grooves and aggravate it.
(l) (Rav Papa): The cure only works if the bone is where the hole is.
(a) (Mishnah): If one slaughters an animal and finds a fetal sac, if it does not repulse him, he may eat it;
(b) It does not have Tum'as Neveilah, nor Tum'as Ochlim;
1. If one intended to eat it, it receives Tum'as Ochlim, but it is not a Nevelah.
(c) If a fetal sac partially left the womb (before slaughter), it is forbidden to eat (any part) of it;
1. A fetal sac indicates that there was a fetus, both in a woman, and in an animal.
(d) If an animal giving birth for the first time miscarried, and a fetal sac came out, it may be cast to dogs (it does not have Kedushas Bechor);
(e) If a Korban miscarried a fetal sac, it must be buried;
1. It may not be buried at the fork in the road, nor may it be suspended in a tree, for these are Darchei ha'Emori (ways of idolaters.)
(f) (Gemara) Question: From where do we know this?
(g) Answer (Beraisa): "You will eat *every* animal" - this includes a fetal sac;
1. One might have thought, this is even if part of it left the womb - "You will eat *it*", not a fetal sac that partially left.
(h) Question: Since a fetal sac always contains a child (albeit squashed), if part of it left, we must be concerned that it was born (and slaughter did not permit it) - why is a verse needed to forbid it?
(i) Answer: Indeed, the verse is only an Asmachta.
(j) (Mishnah): It is not Metamei...
(k) Question (R. Yitzchak Nafcha): If a donkey's hide was cooked for a long time, what is the law?
1. Question: What does he ask about? Whether he asks regarding Tum'as Ochlim, or Tum'as Nevelah, a Beraisa explicitly answers this!

i. (Beraisa): The skin and a fetal sac are not Mekabel Tum'as Ochlim, unless the skin was overcooked and one intended to eat the fetal sac.
ii. (Beraisa): "Nivlaso" - (the meat of the carcass is Tamei,) not the skin, bones, sinews, horns, or hooves.
iii. (Rabah bar bar Chanah): Surely, these are not meat, the verse is needed only (to Metaher from Tum'as Neveilah even) if they were cooked and seasoned.
2. Answer: Really, he asked about Tum'as Ochlim;
i. The Beraisa discusses other skins - donkey skin is repulsive, perhaps it is not Mekabel Tum'ah even after overcooking.
(l) (Mishnah): If the fetal sac (partially) left the womb (the entire sac is forbidden).
(m) Version #1 (R. Elazar): This applies only if there is not also a fetus; if there is also a fetus, we are not concerned that the sac contains a (dissolved) fetus.
(n) (R. Yochanan): Whether or not there is also a fetus, we are concerned that there is a fetus in the sac.
(o) Objection: But R. Yirmeyah taught that R. Elazar is more stringent than R. Yochanan!
(p) Version #2 (R. Elazar): This applies only if the sac is not tied to a fetus; if it is, we are not concerned that the sac contains a fetus.
(q) (R. Yochanan): The Mishnah applies if there is not also a fetus; if there is also a fetus, whether or not it is tied to the sac, we are not concerned that there is a fetus in the sac.
1. This version fits R. Yirmeyah's teaching (R. Elazar is more stringent than R. Yochanan.) (end of Version #2)
(r) Support (for R. Elazar - Beraisa): If a woman miscarried the form of a animal or bird, and a fetal sac:
1. If they are tied together, we are not concerned that the sac contains a fetus (regarding Tum'as Yoledes);
2. If they are not tied together, we are concerned, perhaps the sac of the animal dissolved, and a (human) fetus in the remaining sac dissolved - we are stringent for both possibilities (Rashi - we are also concerned that the animal was the fetus of this sac and she is not a Yoledes; Tosfos - we are concerned for the stringencies of Yoledes Zachar and of Yoledes Nekevah.)
(a) (Mishnah): If an animal giving birth for the first time miscarried (the fetus may be fed to dogs.)
(b) Question: Why is this?
(c) Answer (Rav Ika brei d'Rav R. Ami): Most animals born are Kosher for Kodshim, the minority are not, i.e. Nidmeh (the child resembles a different species than the mother);
1. Half of all animals born are female (which do not get Kedushas Bechor);
2. Since half of all firstborn animals are male, and some of them are Nidmeh, a minority receive Kedushas Bechor (we assume that the fetus is from the majority.)
(d) (Mishnah): If a Kodesh animal miscarries, the fetus must be buried.
(e) This is because most animals born are Kosher for Kodshim.
(f) (Mishnah): We do not bury it...
(g) (Abaye and Rava): Anything done to heal is not (forbidden on account of) 'Darchei (ways of) the Emori (Nochrim)'; if it does not (have a logical or medical reason why it should) heal, it is Darchei ha'Emori.
(h) Question (Beraisa #1): If a tree's produce falls off, one ties a ribbon around the tree and puts stones on it.
1. We understand putting stones on it (this will weaken it, so it will not cast down its produce), but there is no sound reason for the ribbon!
(i) Answer: The ribbon informs people to pray that the tree should improve.
1. (Beraisa): "'Tamei, Tamei' he will call" - a Metzora announces his plight, so people will pray for him.
(j) (Ravina): There is a practice to hang a cluster of dates on a date tree whose dates fall down - this is like the Tana of Beraisa #1.
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