POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Previous daf Chulin 69
CHULIN 69 - sponsored by Dr. and Mrs. Shalom Kelman of Baltimore,
Maryland, USA. May Hashem bless them with long years filled with Torah,
Chidushei Torah, and Nachas!
1) A FETUS THAT PARTIALLY LEFT THE WOMB
(a) Question (Rav Chananyah): If a fetus inside a Shelamim
stuck out a leg (at the time of slaughter) in the
Mikdash, what is the law?
2) WHAT IS PERMITTED INSIDE A SLAUGHTERED ANIMAL?
1. Since the Mikdash is the proper place to slaughter
Korbanos, the leg is considered to be in its proper
(b) Answer (Abaye): This is also the answer to your question!
2. Or, the proper place for the fetus is in the womb,
the Mikdash is no substitute.
3. Counter-question (Abaye): Why didn't you ask if it
sticks a leg outside of Yerushalayim, the proper
place to eat Korbanos?
4. Answer (Abaye): You did not ask, because you hold
that it must remain in the womb;
(c) Question (Ilfa): If a fetus stuck out a leg between the
cutting of the two Simanim, what is the law?
1. (Had the leg been out or in for the entire
slaughter, it would not become a Nevelah -) do we
join the cutting of the two Simanim, to Metaher the
limb from Tum'as Nevelah?
(d) Answer (Rava): We join the two Simanim to permit eating
the rest of the animal (even though the first Siman had
potential to permit more than the second) - all the more
so, we join them to Metaher the leg.
(e) Question (R. Yirmeyah): Are we concerned for offspring of
this fetus that stuck out a leg before slaughter?
1. Question: What is the case?
(f) Answer (R. Yirmeyah): Clearly, all parts of the child
come from all parts of the parents - if not, parents that
were blind or missing a limb would have children with the
2. Suggestion: The calf impregnated a normal cow.
3. Rejection: If so, R. Yirmeyah should have asked
about a normal Ben Peku'ah (fetus found inside a
slaughtered cow) that did not stick out a leg!
i. (Rav Mesharshiya): According to the opinion
that the status of an animal is determined by
the father (as well as the mother), the child
of a Ben Peku'ah that mated with a regular cow
is forbidden, even if one slaughters it.
4. Answer: The case is, this fetus mated with a cow
that likewise stuck out a leg before its mother was
i. Do we say, limbs of the child come from the
corresponding limbs of the parents, and only
the leg of the child is forbidden?
ii. Or, do all parts of the child come from all
parts of the parents, and the entire child is
(g) (R. Yirmeyah answered his own question and asked a
(h) Question (R. Yirmeyah): All animals have Chelev and
blood, which are forbidden, yet the offspring are
1. Here also, even though the parents have a forbidden
leg, the children are permitted;
(i) Answer: Clearly, the children are permitted in spite of
the fact that parts of the parents are forbidden. (R.
Yirmeyah answered his own question and asked a different
2. Or perhaps, when there are two forbidden entities in
the parents, the children are permitted, but not
when there are three?
3. Question: According to whom does R. Yirmeyah ask?
i. It is not according to R. Meir - he holds that
a Ben Peku'ah must be slaughtered (so the leg
of the parents is not forbidden)!
ii. It is not according to R. Yehudah - he permits
Chelev of a fetus (Ben Peku'ah!)
iii. (Beraisa - R. Meir): The Gid ha'Nasheh and
Chelev of a fetus are forbidden;
iv. R. Yehudah permits them.
(j) Question (R. Yirmeyah): If a fetus stuck out a leg before
its mother was slaughtered, is milk of the child
1. All milk is like Ever Min ha'Chai (part of a living
animal), yet the Torah permitted it - also this is
(k) This question is unresolved.
2. Or, here is different, because part of the child
(its leg) can never become permitted?
(a) (Mishnah): If one cuts the fetus...(it is permitted.)
(b) Question: From where do we know this?
(c) Answer #1: "And every animal with split hooves....in an
animal" - this includes a fetus.
(d) Objection: If so, Temurah should apply to a fetus (since
it says "In an animal" regarding Temurah)!
1. (Mishnah #1): Temurah does not take effect in the
(e) Answer #2: Rather, "And every animal" includes a fetus.
2. One said that a limb should be in place of a fetus,
3. One said that a limb or fetus should be in place of
a full animal, or vice-versa.
(f) Question: If so, even if a piece of the spleen or kidneys
is cut, it should be permitted!
1. (Mishnah #2): If one cut from the spleen or kidneys,
it is forbidden.
(g) Answer: "It" - when the animal is complete, what is
inside is permitted, not when it is lacking.
(h) Question: If so, if one slaughters an animal and finds
something resembling a dove inside, it should be
1. (R. Yochanan): If one slaughters an animal and finds
something resembling a dove inside, it is forbidden.
(i) Answer: The Torah permits "Perasos (two (i.e. split)
hooves)...in an animal"); a dove lacks this.
3) WHEN A "BECHOR" BECOMES "MEKUDASH"
(j) Question: If so, if a fetus with unsplit hooves is found
in a slaughtered animal, it should be forbidden!
(k) Answer (Tana d'Vei R. Yishmael, Bei R. Shimon bar
Yochai): "Parsah...in an animal you may eat".
(l) Defense (of Answer #1 - Rav Simi bar Ashi): R. Shimon is
the Tana who holds that Temurah does not apply to
fetuses, because the Torah equates Temurah to Ma'aser:
1. Just like Ma'aser does not apply to limbs and
fetuses, also Temurah.
(m) Question: How do we know that R. Shimon is the Tana?
(n) Answer (Seifa of Mishnah #1 - R. Yosi): When one is
Makdish, if he says 'The leg of this animal is an Olah',
the entire animal becomes an Olah;
1. Similarly regarding Temurah, if one says 'The leg of
this animal is (a Korban) in place of this', the
entire animal should become a Temurah!
(o) Rejection: This is no proof - R. Yosi merely explains how
2. Question: To whom is R. Yosi speaking?
3. Answer #1: He addresses R. Meir and R. Yehudah.
4. Rejection: They argue with R. Yosi's first premise!
i. (Beraisa - R. Meir and R. Yehudah): One might
have thought, if one says 'The leg of this
animal is an Olah', the entire animal is an
Olah - "All that you will give *from it* to
Hash-m will be Kodesh" - part of it will be
Kodesh, not all of it;
ii. One might think, the animal is not Mekudash at
all - "It will be", it keeps its Kedushah.
iii. It is sold to someone who needs an Olah; the
money becomes Chulin, except for the value of
iv. R. Yosi and R. Shimon say, if one says 'The leg
of this animal is an Olah', the entire animal
is an Olah - we learn from "It will be".
v. R. Yosi (in the Mishnah) must address R.
Shimon, for only he agrees that making the leg
Hekdesh is Mekadesh the whole animal.
(a) (Mishnah): The first time an animal gives birth, one may
cut off limbs of the child one by one (when each leaves)
and cast them to the dogs;
(b) If the majority of the fetus comes out (together, and
dies), it must be buried; the next child of the mother is
not a Bechor.
(c) (Gemara - Rav Huna): If a third of a Bechor left the
womb, and the owner sold it to a non-Jew, and another
third came out, it has Kedushas Bechor.
1. He holds that the Kedushah comes retroactively; when
the majority comes out, this shows that even the
first part was a Bechor, so the sale was invalid.
(d) (Rabah): The child has no Kedushah.
1. He holds that the Kedushah (normally) comes from now
and onwards, so the sale was valid.
(e) Rav Huna and Rabah are consistent with their opinions
1. (Rav Huna): If a third of a Bechor was born by
Caesarian section, and the rest came out from the
womb, it has no Kedushah;
(f) It is necessary to hear the argument in both cases.
i. Since the Kedushah (only) comes retroactively,
and the beginning of the birth cannot Mekadesh
it, it remains Chulin;
2. (Rabah): The child is a Bechor;
i. The Kedushah starts with birth (of the majority
through the womb.).
1. Had we heard only in this latter case, we would
think that Rav Huna is always lenient, and says even
in the first case that the child is Chulin.
2. Had we only heard the first case, we would think
that Rabah is always stringent, and says even in the
latter case that the child is Kodesh.