POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
Ask A Question on the daf
Previous daf Chulin 34
CHULIN 34 (4 Adar) - Today's Daf has been dedicated l'Zecher Nishmat Pinchas
ben Harav Moshe Yehoshua Ha'Kohain, Z"L.
1) "CHULIN" TREATED LIKE "KODESH" (cont.)
(a) Question: He should establish the Mishnah to discuss
Chulin Al Taharas Terumah, then the Mishnah can be like
(b) Answer: The Mishnah discusses meat - Terumah does not
apply to meat (meat Al Taharas Terumah is meaningless).
(c) Question: The Mishnah discusses Chayos, which cannot be
Korbanos (so meat of Chayos 'Al Taharas Kodesh' should be
(d) Answer: Since people can confuse meat of Chayos and
Behemos, Al Taharas Kodesh applies to both; one would
never confuse meat and produce.
(e) (Ula): Our colleagues say that the Mishnah discusses
Chulin Al Taharas Kodesh, and it is unlike R. Yehoshua; I
say, it can even be like R. Yehoshua!
1. R. Yehoshua teaches that *even* something Al Taharas
Terumah can become a Shelishi l'Tumah, all the more
so something Al Taharas Kodesh, which is more
(f) Question: Who are the colleagues Ula alluded to?
(g) Answer: He alluded to Rabah bar bar Chanah.
1. (Rabah bar bar Chanah): R. Eliezer and R. Yehoshua
argued as follows:
2. R. Eliezer: We find that one who eats food becomes
more Tamei than the food itself - one who touches
the Neveilah of a Tahor bird does not become Tamei,
but if he eats it, he and his clothes become Teme'im
when he swallows it;
i. We should say that if one eats a Rishon, Sheni
or Shelishi l'Tumah, he becomes at least as
Tamei as what he ate!
3. R. Yehoshua: We cannot learn from a Tahor Neveilah
bird, that is a Chidush;
i. Rather, regular Tamei food is more severe than
the one who eats it - Tamei food the size of an
egg can Metamei other foods, but one who eats
Tamei food does not become Tamei until he eats
half a loaf (the volume of two eggs)!
4. R. Eliezer: We do not learn (the degree of) Tum'ah
from the quantity required to Metamei;
i. Also, you contradict yourself! You say that one
who eats a Rishon l'Tumah becomes a Sheni -
this is according to your rule that one does
not become as Tamei as what he eats;
5. R. Yehoshua: A Sheni is different, for a food that
is a Sheni can make another food a Sheni through a
liquid (i.e. if the second food is wet).
ii. But you also say that one who eats a Sheni
becomes a Sheni!
6. Version #1 (Rashi) R. Eliezer: If so, you should
also say that one who eats a Rishon becomes a
Rishon, for a food that is a Rishon makes a liquid a
7. Version #2 (Tosfos) R. Eliezer: That is not a case
of a Tum'ah imparting the same Tum'ah to another
food - the liquid becomes a Rishon (a special
decree, on account of liquids that are an Av
ha'Tum'ah), the liquid makes the second food a
Sheni! (End of Version #2)
i. (Mishnah): Anything which is Posel Terumah, it
makes a liquid a Rishon, except for a Tevul Yom
(one who was Tamei and immersed today, his
Taharah is not complete until nightfall).
8. R. Yehoshua: (Rashi - a special decree makes a
liquid a Rishon, we do not learn from it that one
who eats a Rishon becomes a Rishon;)
ii. Also - why do you say that one who eats a
Shelishi becomes a Sheni?
i. I only said that one who eats a Shelishi
becomes a Sheni regarding Chulin Al Taharas
Terumah, which is not considered guarded
regarding Kodshim (therefore, we suspect that
perhaps he ate a Sheni).
2) EATING A "SHELISHI"
(a) (R. Asi citing R. Yochanan): If one eats Chulin Al
Taharas Kodesh that is a Shelishi, he becomes a Sheni
(b) Question (R. Zeira - Mishnah): If one eats a Shelishi he
becomes a Sheni regarding Kodesh, but not regarding
1. The case is, he ate Chulin Al Taharas Terumah.
(c) Answer (R. Asi): No - he teaches a bigger Chidush, that
it even applies to Chulin Al Taharas Terumah (and all the
more so, Chulin Al Taharas Kodesh).
2. Inference: This only applies to Chulin Al Taharas
Terumah, not to Chulin Al Taharas Kodesh!
(d) Question: But R. Yehoshua said, he becomes a Sheni only
because the guarding of Terumah is insufficient regarding
(e) Answer: Rabah bar bar Chanah said in the name of R.
Yochanan that R. Yehoshua said this - R. Asi holds that
R. Yochanan never said this.
(f) (Ula): If one eats a Shelishi of Chulin Al Taharas
Terumah, he becomes forbidden to eat Terumah.
(g) Question: We learn this from the Mishnah, why must Ula
1. (Mishnah): He becomes a Sheni regarding Kodesh, but
not regarding Terumah.
(h) Answer: One might have thought, he is neither a Sheni nor
a Shelishi regarding Terumah;
2. (Inference: He is not a Sheni regarding Terumah, but
he is a Shelishi (i.e. he may not eat it).
1. Since the Mishnah said he is a Sheni regarding
Kodshim, it said that he is not a Sheni regarding
Terumah (for parallel structure).
(i) Question (Rav Hamnuna - Mishnah): If Chulin is a Rishon,
it is Tamei, it is Metamei food that it touches;
2. Ula teaches that this is not so.
1. A Sheni is Posel, it does not make Tamei;
(j) Answer: The case is, he mixes less than a k'Zayis of
Terumah in a half-loaf's volume of the mixture (so it is
not treated as Terumah, rather as regular Chulin,
Shelishi does not apply to Chulin (it is Tahor)).
2. A Shelishi may be eaten with Terumah mixed in
(surely, it was guarded like Terumah since he
planned to mix it with Terumah).
3. (Summation of question): If one who eats a Shelishi
becomes a Shelishi, why is this permitted?