POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
Ask A Question on the daf
Previous daf Chulin 18
1) CHECKING A KNIFE
(a) Question: What size nick disqualifies the Mizbe'ach?
2) INVALID KNIVES
(b) Answer: If a fingernail will get caught (if one runs his
nail along the Mizbe'ach), this disqualifies it.
(c) Question (Beraisa - R. Shimon bar Yochai): A nick the
size of a Tefach disqualifies the Mizbe'ach;
1. R. Eliezer ben Yakov says, the size of an olive.
(d) Answer: Regarding the plaster, a Tefach or olive sized
nick disqualifies; regarding stones of the Mizbe'ach, a
nick that catches a fingernail disqualifies it.
(e) (Rav Huna): If a slaughterer does not have the Chacham
check his knife, we excommunicate him;
(f) (Rava): We remove him from his job, and announce that the
meat he slaughtered is not Kosher.
1. They do not argue - Rav Huna discusses when the
knife was found to be proper, Rava discusses when it
was found to be blemished.
(g) (Ravina): If it was found to be blemished, we dirty the
meat in the innards, so even a Nochri will not buy it
(lest he resell it to a Yisrael who knows that a Yisrael
(h) A certain slaughterer did not show his knife to Rava bar
Chinena. Rava bar Chinena excommunicated him, removed him
from his job, and announced that the meat he slaughtered
is not Kosher.
1. Rava bar Chinena (to Mar Zutra and Rav Ashi): Look
into the matter - he has children to feed!
2. Rav Ashi checked the knife; it was good. He allowed
the slaughterer to resume his job.
3. Mar Zutra: Aren't you concerned for the honor of
Rava bar Chinena, who deposed him?
4. Rav Ashi: He wanted us to reinstate him, if
(a) (Rabah bar Rav Huna): One may slaughter with a detached
tooth or fingernail.
3) WHERE TO CUT THE "KANEH"
(b) Question (Mishnah): ...Except for...teeth and a
fingernail, for these choke.
(c) Answer: Regarding a tooth - Rabah permitted a single
tooth, the Mishnah disqualifies two teeth;
1. Regarding a fingernail - Rabah permitted a detached
nail, the Mishnah disqualifies an attached nail.
(d) (Mishnah): If one slaughters with a reaping scythe, only
pushing it away from himself - Beis Shamai disqualify,
Beis Hillel Machshir;
1. If he smoothed the teeth, it is like a normal knife.
(e) (Gemara - R. Chiya bar Aba): Beis Hillel only say that
the slaughter is not Tamei like a Neveilah, but they
admit that the meat may not be eaten.
1. Support (Rav Ashi): The words of the Mishnah suggest
this - it does not say, Beis Shamai and Beis Hillel
forbid and permit, rather, they disqualify and
2. Question: No, the wording opposes R. Chiya bar Aba -
according to him, it should say they Metamei and
3. Answer: Rather, we do not distinguish 'forbid and
permit' from 'disqualify and Machshir', we cannot
support or disprove R. Chiya bar Aba from this.
(a) (Mishnah): If one slaughters in the (top) ring (around
the Kaneh) - if the entire cut was within the ring, even
within a hair's breadth of leaving the ring, it is
(b) R. Yosi b'Rebbi Yehudah says, as long as the majority of
the ring was cut before the knife left the ring, it is
(c) (Gemara - Rav and Shmuel): The Halachah follows R. Yosi
b'Rebbi Yehudah; even he only referred to the top ring,
since the top ring fully surrounds the Kaneh;
1. He does not permit slaughtering (Tosfos - only a
majority) within any other ring.
(d) Question (Beraisa - R. Yosi b'Rebbi Yehudah): If one
slaughters in other rings, even though they do not fully
surround the Kaneh, since the surround the majority, it
1. Hagramah (if the knife left the proper place of
slaughter, even after cutting the majority of the
Kaneh, the slaughter) is invalid;
(e) Answer (Rav Yosef): R. Yosi b'Rebbi Yehudah argues with
Chachamim about two points; Rav and Shmuel rule like him
about one (slaughter in the top ring), and argue about
one (slaughter in other rings).
2. R. Chanina ben Antignonus testified that Hagramah is
(f) Question: But they said that R. Yosi b'Rebbi Yehudah only
said his law regarding the top ring!
(g) Answer: They meant, the Halachah follows him only
regarding the top ring, not regarding other rings.
(h) When R. Zeira came to Eretz Yisrael, he ate animals
slaughtered in other rings, which Rav and Shmuel consider
to be Hagramah, unlike R. Yosi.
1. Rabanan: But you come from Bavel, where people
conduct like Rav and Shmuel!
(i) Question: Does R. Zeira hold that a visitor need not
adopt the stringencies of his home town and the place he
2. R. Zeira: Only Rav Yosef says that they disqualified
i. Rav Yosef hears from everyone, reliable or not
- he probably erred, Rav and Shmuel never
really said this.
3. Rav Yosef was insulted (when he heard this). 'I
don't hear from just anyone - I heard from Rav
Yehudah, who is meticulous to record all possible
sources of teachings!'
i. (Rav Yehudah): R. Yirmeyah bar Aba was unsure
if he heard from Rav or Shmuel, that three
amateurs can permit a blemished firstborn
animal to be slaughtered (outside the Mikdash)
if an expert Chacham is not around.
(j) Answer #1 (Abaye): That only applies to one who travels
within Bavel, or within Eretz Yisrael, or goes from Eretz
Yisrael to Bavel;
1. But one who goes from Bavel to Eretz Yisrael - since
we (in Bavel) are subordinate to them, he conducts
in all ways like a resident of Eretz Yisrael.
(k) Answer #2 (Rav Ashi): Even if a resident of Bavel goes to
Eretz Yisrael, if he does not intend to return, he adopts
all the customs of his new locale;
1. R. Zeira intended to remain in Eretz Yisrael.
(l) Question (Abaye, of Rav Yosef): But Chachamim of Nehardai
cite Rav Nachman to say that the Hagramah (which you say
that Rav and Shmuel disqualify) is Kosher!
(m) Answer (Rav Yosef): Different regions rule differently.
(n) (Reish Lakish): The top edge of the Kova (a cap on top of
the top ring) is Kosher for slaughter.
(o) R. Yochanan: That is too lenient.
(p) (Rav Papi citing Rava): If the knife Paga (encountered)
the Chiti (glands by the Kova) the slaughter is invalid.
1. Version #1 (Rashi) Question: Does he mean that the
knife cut them, or that it came very close?
(q) (Rav *Papa* citing Rava): If he left over in the Chiti
(cut them anywhere in the middle), the slaughter is
1. Version #2 (Tosfos) Question: Does he mean that the
knife cut through them, or that it cut above them?
(r) (Rav Papa citing Rava): If he left over in the Chiti (cut
through them), the slaughter is Kosher. (Tosfos - but had
he cut above, it would be invalid - presumably, this is
what Rav Papi meant). (end of Version #2)
1. R. Chiya brei d'Rav Avya and Mar Zutra taught like
(s) (Mar bar Rav Ashi): If he Paga in the Chiti, the
slaughter is Kosher; if he left over in the Chiti, it is