POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
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Previous daf Bava Basra 168
1) CHACHAMIM DO NOT RECOGNIZE WOMEN SO WELL
(a) A woman was claiming her Kesuvah. R. Yirmeyah bar Aba was
signed on a receipt saying that she was paid; she said,
it was not written for her.
2) WHO PAYS THE SCRIBE
1. R. Yirmeyah bar Aba: I agree, it was not written for
you - but the other witnesses say that it was, you
grew older, your voice changed.
(b) R. Yirmeyah bar Aba was signed on a receipt; the woman
said that it was not written for her.
2. (Abaye): Even though once a witness testified, he
cannot retract his testimony, a Chacham normally
does not recognize women so well, he is believed to
retract what he originally said (that it was not
1. R. Yirmeyah bar Aba: It was written for you!
(c) (Abaye): Even though a Chacham normally does not
recognize women so well, if he is sure, he is sure!
(d) (Abaye): When a Chacham goes to Mekadesh a woman, he
should take an ignoramus with him, lest they will give
him a different woman at the Nisu'in (the ignoramus would
recognize that she is not the same woman).
(a) (Mishnah): The husband pays the scribe.
3) DOCUMENTS OF BEIS DIN
(b) Question: What is the reason?
(c) Answer: "V'Kasav...v'Nasan" (the one who writes the Get
must be the one who gives it).
1. Nowadays, the woman pays - Chachamim enacted this,
in order that the husband will not delay giving it
(because he does not want to pay for it).
(d) (Mishnah): We may write a loan document for a borrower,
even in the absence of the lender... (the borrower pays
(e) Objection: This is obvious (he benefits from the loan)!
(f) Answer: The Chidush is regarding an Iska (the lender
shares the profits).
(g) (Mishnah): We may write a sale document for a seller,
even in the absence of the buyer...(the buyer pays the
(h) Objection: This is obvious (he benefits from the sale)!
(i) Answer: The Chidush is when the field is sold on account
of its low quality.
(j) (Mishnah): We only write documents of Kidushin or Nisu'in
with consent of both parties (the Chasan pays the
(k) Objection: This is obvious (he benefits more)!
(l) Answer: The Chidush is when he is a Chacham, his
father-in-law benefits more.
(m) (Mishnah): We only write documents of Arisus or rental of
land with consent of both parties (the worker or renter
pays the scribe).
(n) Objection: This is obvious!
(o) Answer: The Chidush is when he must leave the field
fallow this year (he does not benefit now).
(a) (Mishnah): We only write documents of Birurin...with
consent of both parties.
4) DOES ASMACHTA ACQUIRE?
(b) Question: What is a document of Birurin?
(c) Answer #1 (Chachamim of Bavel): It Mevarer (clarifies)
(d) Answer #2 (R. Yirmeyah bar Aba): It says which judge each
party Birer (chose) to hear the case. (The two judges
then choose the third judge.)
(e) (Mishnah): R. Shimon ben Gamliel says, one copy is
written for each party.
(f) Suggestion: Chachamim and R. Shimon ben Gamliel argue
whether or not Kofin Al Midas Sedom (we force a person to
share if this benefits others and he will not lose):
1. Chachamim say that either party can force the other
to share the cost of one document, R. Shimon ben
Gamliel says that it cannot.
(g) Rejection: No, all agree that Kofin Al Midas Sedom;
1. R. Shimon ben Gamliel says that a party can refuse
to have the claims of each side written together
(Rashbam - lest constantly seeing the other's claims
will cause friction).
(a) (Mishnah - R. Yosi): Reuven paid part of his debt to
Shimon. He fixed a date and gave the document to Levi
saying: 'If I do not pay the rest by this date, give the
document to Shimon (who may then collect the full
amount).' Reuven did not pay in time - Levi gives the
document to Shimon;
5) A FADED DOCUMENT
(b) R. Yehudah says, he does not give it.
(c) (Gemara) Question: What do they argue about?
(d) Answer: R. Yosi says that Asmachta (an exaggerated
promise) is binding, R. Yehudah holds that it is not.
(e) (Rav Nachman): The Halachah follows R. Yosi.
(f) When people would come in front of R. Ami, he would say
'R. Yochanan says that the Halachah follows R. Yosi - how
can I argue?!
(g) The Halachah does not follow R. Yosi.
(a) (Mishnah): If Reuven's document faded, he gets witnesses
who know what was written to testify in front of Beis
Din, Beis Din writes a Kiyum: Ploni's document faded, on
this day, the witnesses were Almoni and...
(b) (Gemara - Beraisa): The Kiyum is: 'We three judges sat,
Reuven and..., Ploni showed us that his document was
faded, the date was..., the witnesses were Almoni and...
(c) If the Kiyum says 'We heard the witnesses' testimony, it
was proper', Ploni can collect with the Kiyum, he does
not need proof (of the date of the original document); if
not, he must bring proof (of the original date).
(d) If a document was torn (by a person), it is invalid; if
it became torn by itself, it is valid.
(e) If it was erased or smudged - if the imprint of the
writing is still visible, it is valid; if not, not.
(f) Question: What are the cases of being torn (by a person)
and torn by itself?
(g) Answer: Torn by a person - this is when Beis Din tears
it; torn by itself - this is any other tear.
(h) Question: How does Beis Din tear a document?
(i) Answer #1 (Rav Yehudah): They tear the place of the
witnesses, the date and the Toref (the crucial
information, i.e. the parties, the amount of the
(j) Answer #2 (Abaye): They tear it lengthwise and widthwise.
(k) Some Yishmaelim came to Pumbadisa, they would forcibly
take people's land; the owners brought their documents to
Abaye, and asked him to write new ones, in case the
originals will be taken.
1. Abaye: I cannot - Rav Safra taught (169A), we do not
write two documents for one field, lest the field be
collected by a creditor of the seller (Reuven), and
the buyer (Shimon) will take land from someone who
bought from Reuven after Shimon (and give him one
document), then Shimon will take land from someone
else who bought from Reuven (and give him the other
2. The owners were pressuring Abaye. He told his scribe
to write documents for them on erased parchment, and
the witnesses should sign on clear parchment (such
documents are invalid).
3. Rav Acha bar Minyomi: Perhaps the imprint of the
writing of the first document (before the parchment
was erased) will still be visible - the Beraisa
teaches that Beis Din makes a Kiyum in such a case!
4. Abaye: The scribe will not write over an erased
document, rather, he will write 'Aleph-Beis', erase
it, and then write for these people.