POINT BY POINT SUMMARY
Prepared by Rabbi P. Feldman
of Kollel Iyun Hadaf, Yerushalayim
Rosh Kollel: Rabbi Mordecai Kornfeld
Ask A Question on the daf
Previous daf Avodah Zarah 58
1) SHAKING WITHOUT INTENT FOR "NISUCH" (cont.)
(a) Version #1 (our text, Rashi): Rav Huna bar Chinena came
to Mechuza (Rava's city). Rava told Rav Elyakim to keep
him out, lest he overwhelm him with questions;
nevertheless, he entered.
2) A NOCHRI THAT DID NOT INTEND FOR "NISUCH"
(b) Rav Huna bar Chinena: What is the law in this case?
(c) Rava: It is forbidden to benefit from it.
(d) Rav Huna: But you said that shaking (without intent for
Nisuch) does not make Yayin Nesech!
(e) Rava: (I agree that it makes Yayin Nesech;) I only
permitted selling the mixture on condition to throw away
the money corresponding to the Yayin Nesech. (This
encounter was after Rava retracted on account of Abaye's
questions (coming up), he was ashamed to admit his
(f) Version #2 (Tosfos): Rav Nachman came to Mechuza. Rava
went to see him; he told Rav Elyakim to keep *others*
out, lest they distract them.
(g) Rava: What is the law in this case?
(h) Rav Nachman: It is forbidden to benefit from it.
(i) Rava: But you said that shaking (without intent for
Nisuch) does not make Yayin Nesech!
(j) Rav Nachman: I only permitted selling the mixture on
condition to throw away the money corresponding to the
Yayin Nesech. (End of Version #2)
(k) Rava: When I came to Pumbadisa, Abaye refuted me from
earlier Amora'im and a Beraisa.
(l) Question #1 (Abaye): Cases occurred, Shmuel (in
Neharda'a) and R. Yochanan (in Tiverya) forbade benefit
(m) Answer (Rava): That was not letter of the law, they were
stringent because people of those cities are not learned
(had they permitted, the inhabitants would have
incorrectly extrapolated to other cases).
(n) Rejection (Abaye): Do you think that people of Mechuza
are more learned than those of Neharda'a and Tiverya?!
(o) Question #2 (Abaye - Beraisa): A certain Nochri was
appointed to supervise measures. He tasted wine and
returned it to the barrel; Chachamim forbade it.
1. They forbade benefit from it!
(p) Answer (Rava): No, they only forbade drinking it.
(q) Rejection (Abaye): If so, it should say 'it must be
sold', like the end of the Beraisa!
1. (End of the Beraisa): A case occurred, a crazed
Nochri stuck his hand in wine, thinking that it was
oil; Chachamim ruled, it must be sold.
(r) Rava is refuted.
(a) R. Yochanan ben Arza and R. Yosi ben Nehorai were
drinking wine together; a man came, they offered him to
drink. After he poured from the bottle into his cup, they
realized that he was a Nochri. One of these two Chachamim
permitted the bottle, one forbade it.
1. R. Yehoshua ben Levi: Each of them has a good
2. The opinion that forbade reasoned, the Nochri
assumed that distinguished Chachamim would not drink
beer, surely it is wine - therefore, he was
(b) Question (R. Asi): If a Nochri Masach (mixed) wine (with
water), what is the law?
3. The opinion that permitted reasoned, the Nochri
assumed that Chachamim would not invite a Nochri to
drink wine, surely it is beer - therefore, he did
4. Question: The Nochri could see that it was wine!
5. Answer: It was at night.
6. Question: He could smell that it was wine!
7. Answer: It was new wine (which has no smell).
8. Question: But he touched the (Tosfos - wine when he
used a) vessel to draw the wine from the barrel -
even without intention, this forbids the wine!
9. Answer: No, he merely emptied the wine out from a
bottle (he merely gave it Ko'ach (impetus));
i. Chachamim did not forbid a Nochri's Ko'ach when
he did not intend to Menasech.
1. R. Yochanan: Why didn't you say Mazag (mixed, in the
language of the Mishnayos)?
(c) Answer (R. Yochanan): It is forbidden, on account of
'Lech Lech...' (a Nazir should stay far from a vineyard,
and likewise, everyone should distance himself from
2. R. Asi: I use the language of Torah - "Tovechah
Tivchah Mosechah Yeinah".
3. R. Yochanan: The language of Chachamim differs from
that of the Torah!
(d) In Savta, R. Yirmeyah saw Yisraelim drinking wine mixed
by Nochrim; he forbade this, like R. Yochanan.